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I actually see his assertiveness as a sign of how much Jobs respects the potential of his competitors and the ruthlessness with which the market will walk away

I actually see his assertiveness as a sign of how much Jobs respects the potential of his competitors and the ruthlessness with which the market will walk away from his company's products if he doesn't sell, and just how much obligation he has to employees who sacrifice so much to make it look like magic.

billmcneale 16y ago
You have a strange definition of "respect". Maybe behind closed doors and in board meetings, Jobs will admit that Android is a very fierce competitor that is taking market share away from Apple. But on the public front, he shows nothing but disdain for competitors and he spends much more time on stage disparaging them than he used to. Bashing competitors is not just poor form, it's usually the sign of a business losing steam.
- rbarooah 16y ago
  By that measure, all of the major players are losing steam.
  - Sakes 16y ago
    I think he means that when a company switches from ignoring competitors to acknowledging them by ridiculing them, then they are not as far ahead as they used to be. So it does imply losing steam in this case. Phases: 1) Ignore 2) Ridicule 3) Fight 4) Lose If a company was in phase 2 last year, and phase 2 this year they are not losing steam. A company is losing steam when it moves down the above phase ladder.
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      Nice. That should be a mechanic in the Hacker News board game. "Ridicule Competition: Your CEO is losing confidence but is unaware of it. Lose 3 steam points and miss your next turn."
  - Silhouette 16y ago
    You mean Apple, Microsoft, Google, RIM et al? Yes, I think it's a pretty fair assessment to say that they are all losing steam. Their basic problem is that smartphones and tablets have gone from being the cool new toys of yesteryear to being mainstream, expensive tools, with just a soupçon of "too clever for your own good". I saw an interesting debate a few weeks ago on HN. Some people saw these generic tools as the future and specialised tools increasingly becoming obsolete. Other people saw the generic tools as Jacks-of-all-trades whose weaknesses next to dedicated mobile phones, music players, e-book readers, satnavs, etc. were becoming increasingly apparent as practical experience starts to trump the hype. If I were brave enough to invest in hi-tech companies, I imagine I would be shorting all of the stocks I mentioned above right now. They are making a staggering amount of money today, to be sure. I'm just not sure how much all these new technologies they have been coming out with recently actually help real people to do things they care about, and I think they are highly vulnerable to indirect competition as consumers become more aware of what they actually care about and which gadgets help them do those things. [Edit: Would the downvoter(s) care to explain why? Apple have or have recently had significant problems with the reliability of the iPhone 4, the spec for the iPad, and their reputation among the communities of app and content developers who support their entire infrastructure. Google have released a string of flops, many of which have been killed within a year, and are starting to look vulnerable even in their main playgrounds of search and on-line advertising, so unless something is fundamentally different in Android world there are probably similar difficulties there as well. RIM's last two big product launches have made Microsoft's handling of Vista look professional. Microsoft themselves have released a string of Windows Mobile platforms that have horrible reliability, functionality and performance compared to other major mobile operating systems. How are any of these companies not losing steam?]
    - rbarooah 16y ago
      Good god, why on earth did that get downvoted? It's an intelligent opinion, and he's not the only one who thinks it. That said, I strongly disagree. iPad class tablets are a portable window into the digital world. Apple's video did a pretty good job of showing how that could help people do things they care about, and we're only just getting started.
- farlington 16y ago
  It's worth mentioning that last year's Google I/O featured some intense competitor bashing from Vic Gundontra that actually did a lot to strengthen the Android brand, and cemented its status as the primary anti-Apple underdog (now uberdog?). I think any harsh remarks from Steve Jobs at this event should be viewed in that context, and are a reflection of the overall shift in tone between Apple and Google. The sniping is probably good for their brands and for their 'brand advocates,' who along with the press are really the primary consumers of Apple Event streams and Google I/O conferences—the people discussing this shit ad nauseaum in forums and comment flamewars. </meta>
  - JohnnyBrown 16y ago
    >brand advocates i.e. Everyone on this thread
  - bane 16y ago
    When a perceived underdog bashes it's "scrappy", when a perceived leader does it it's "bullying", simple as that. I think the thing I took away best from the original post is the presentation of some severe cognitive dissonance: huge pumping of specs, followed by carefully omitting specs that may not look the best, followed by "specs aren't important anyways".
- niels_olson 16y ago
  > you have a strange definition of respect here's my off-the-cuff attempt. respect: appreciation for another's abilities, experience, and potential. Sign of respect: modifying one's behavior based on another's abilities, experience, and potential.
dannyr 16y ago
So making things up about something/somebody is a sign of respect?
- Dylanlacey 16y ago
  It is a sign that they have earned more credibility as a threat.

billmcneale 16y ago

You have a strange definition of "respect". Maybe behind closed doors and in board meetings, Jobs will admit that Android is a very fierce competitor that is taking market share away from Apple. But on the public front, he shows nothing but disdain for competitors and he spends much more time on stage disparaging them than he used to. Bashing competitors is not just poor form, it's usually the sign of a business losing steam.

rbarooah 16y ago
By that measure, all of the major players are losing steam.
- Sakes 16y ago
  I think he means that when a company switches from ignoring competitors to acknowledging them by ridiculing them, then they are not as far ahead as they used to be. So it does imply losing steam in this case. Phases: 1) Ignore 2) Ridicule 3) Fight 4) Lose If a company was in phase 2 last year, and phase 2 this year they are not losing steam. A company is losing steam when it moves down the above phase ladder.
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    Nice. That should be a mechanic in the Hacker News board game. "Ridicule Competition: Your CEO is losing confidence but is unaware of it. Lose 3 steam points and miss your next turn."
- Silhouette 16y ago
  You mean Apple, Microsoft, Google, RIM et al? Yes, I think it's a pretty fair assessment to say that they are all losing steam. Their basic problem is that smartphones and tablets have gone from being the cool new toys of yesteryear to being mainstream, expensive tools, with just a soupçon of "too clever for your own good". I saw an interesting debate a few weeks ago on HN. Some people saw these generic tools as the future and specialised tools increasingly becoming obsolete. Other people saw the generic tools as Jacks-of-all-trades whose weaknesses next to dedicated mobile phones, music players, e-book readers, satnavs, etc. were becoming increasingly apparent as practical experience starts to trump the hype. If I were brave enough to invest in hi-tech companies, I imagine I would be shorting all of the stocks I mentioned above right now. They are making a staggering amount of money today, to be sure. I'm just not sure how much all these new technologies they have been coming out with recently actually help real people to do things they care about, and I think they are highly vulnerable to indirect competition as consumers become more aware of what they actually care about and which gadgets help them do those things. [Edit: Would the downvoter(s) care to explain why? Apple have or have recently had significant problems with the reliability of the iPhone 4, the spec for the iPad, and their reputation among the communities of app and content developers who support their entire infrastructure. Google have released a string of flops, many of which have been killed within a year, and are starting to look vulnerable even in their main playgrounds of search and on-line advertising, so unless something is fundamentally different in Android world there are probably similar difficulties there as well. RIM's last two big product launches have made Microsoft's handling of Vista look professional. Microsoft themselves have released a string of Windows Mobile platforms that have horrible reliability, functionality and performance compared to other major mobile operating systems. How are any of these companies not losing steam?]
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    Good god, why on earth did that get downvoted? It's an intelligent opinion, and he's not the only one who thinks it. That said, I strongly disagree. iPad class tablets are a portable window into the digital world. Apple's video did a pretty good job of showing how that could help people do things they care about, and we're only just getting started.
farlington 16y ago
It's worth mentioning that last year's Google I/O featured some intense competitor bashing from Vic Gundontra that actually did a lot to strengthen the Android brand, and cemented its status as the primary anti-Apple underdog (now uberdog?). I think any harsh remarks from Steve Jobs at this event should be viewed in that context, and are a reflection of the overall shift in tone between Apple and Google. The sniping is probably good for their brands and for their 'brand advocates,' who along with the press are really the primary consumers of Apple Event streams and Google I/O conferences—the people discussing this shit ad nauseaum in forums and comment flamewars. </meta>
- JohnnyBrown 16y ago
  >brand advocates i.e. Everyone on this thread
- bane 16y ago
  When a perceived underdog bashes it's "scrappy", when a perceived leader does it it's "bullying", simple as that. I think the thing I took away best from the original post is the presentation of some severe cognitive dissonance: huge pumping of specs, followed by carefully omitting specs that may not look the best, followed by "specs aren't important anyways".
niels_olson 16y ago
> you have a strange definition of respect here's my off-the-cuff attempt. respect: appreciation for another's abilities, experience, and potential. Sign of respect: modifying one's behavior based on another's abilities, experience, and potential.

dannyr 16y ago

So making things up about something/somebody is a sign of respect?

Dylanlacey 16y ago
It is a sign that they have earned more credibility as a threat.