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It’s ad reductio it’s like saying soccer is pushing a ball. You could also say life is waking up eating sleeping and then death. It’s true but it’s definitely a

It’s ad reductio it’s like saying soccer is pushing a ball. You could also say life is waking up eating sleeping and then death. It’s true but it’s definitely an emotional argument. I preferred the lectures on free will by Conway, it does not answer anything but it allows for a nice réflexion

rutierut 7y ago
True but for a lot of people that's pretty much it. It would not be absurd to say: "For my 4 year old soccer is just pushing a ball".
- softwarejosh 7y ago
  except I remember being 4 and I pretty much never touched that thing slippery bastard
raverbashing 7y ago
Agreed. We might as well say, you're a slave to oxygen and water, then you die.
- thefounder 7y ago
  Not really. It's not like you are workibg all your life to "earn" oxygen and water. Fortunately(for most of us) we are living in an utopia as far as oxygen and water is concerned. You get them for "free"/with minimal effort.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    First time I’ve read that providing clean water on demand to everyone at a sufficient pressure is “minimal effort”. To me, the infrastructure and experimentation and science that leads to all homes having reliable, potable water is miraculous. There’s very large swaths of the planet where you are supposed to drink only bottled water, from a bottle unsealed in front of you.
    - clarry 7y ago
      > First time I’ve read that providing clean water on demand to everyone at a sufficient pressure is “minimal effort”. Let's look at it from this perspective: what percentage of your country's workforce is actively involved in providing clean water? If it were such a huge effort to provide for relatively basic human needs, then I'd imagine we'd have more people working on that and less people working on advertising, entertainment, rent-seeking, making & marketing disposable novelty products, etc.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        The gist of the argument is that while oxygen is available at no effort, clean, potable water without pathogens and contaminants is certainly not and is a modern miracle. It’s only been a little over 100 years since the discovery of chlorine killing bacteria and whatnot in water. As for what portion of the population is needed to provide clean water, I don’t see how that is a useful or measurable metric. Certainly the discovery process of cleaning the water, the materials science in creating the pipes, learning about lead poisoning and changing that, and so on and so forth is a huge effort in my books. Also, going forward, access to clean water is looking like it will be a source of conflict. It’s not in the timescale of the next 5 to 10 years, so people take it for granted, but certainly the grandchildren of today will have to deal with procuring this “effortless” resources. One might even say the same for oxygen in developing countries where poor people have to live next to factories under a permanent cloud of pollution. They literally can’t go for a run because of a lack of clean air!
    - scroot 7y ago
      > There’s very large swaths of the planet where you are supposed to drink only bottled water Is that the "natural" order of things? Certainly it isn't, at least no more than markets or money represent a "natural order." In fact, we can make a convincing case that the tainting of fresh water is the direct consequence of this kind of market-oriented thought.
      - 34679 7y ago
        You could make that argument, but there appears to be a positive correlation between robust markets and clean drinking water for everyone.
  - dangus 7y ago
    Water isn’t the problem, it’s sanitation, as in having flushing toilets and sewers. More people have mobile phones than have access to improved sanitation. Without it, you die early of disease. Humanity really didn’t even control their poop all that well until a couple of hundred years ago with the invention of the modern toilet and the S-trap.
- scroot 7y ago
  By saying this, you are confirming the author's argument about how (recent) cultures interpret the role of markets in all of life
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    Would you prefer to hunter-gather?
fennecfoxen 7y ago
It’s also as old a story as Genesis 3:19. “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
- saltyfever 7y ago
  Gensis is talking about farmers working the land for food. Modern work is an invention of man built on top of it, it's a degenerate replica in terms of satisifcation, necessity, meaning etc. It's not the same story. Edit: I'd like to see the downvoters argue against the notion that some work is more essential than other work. Hasn't the COVID-19 crisis opened your eyes to this reality?
  - netfl0 7y ago
    That is not true. It is a metaphor for generic work.
    - clarry 7y ago
      Did you interview the author? I'd like to read that.
      - tomrod 7y ago
        That particular priest of the priestly class seeking to justify their predation of their bronze-age neighbors is probably dead. So, unfortunately, we are only left with their hagiographal and/or mythical prose.
        achillesheels 7y ago
        You must be fun at parties.
        tomrod 7y ago
        A blast, yes. Thank you for your personality assessment on a scant sub-tweet sized comment.
payattentionhm 7y ago
Is your comment based solely on the headline? There's an entire article behind it as well, and it's an interesting read.
hudibras 7y ago
In every HN comment section, there's always, 100% of the time, at least one person who only reads the title of the piece (in this case, a song lyric from The Verve) and still has the nerve to post a comment.
- wayneftw 7y ago
  So what? The headline is dumb. Nothing wrong with pointing that out and saying why. The fact that you say you read the article and this attack was your best comment... well I’d say one of these comments is basically worthless and it’s not the guy who pointed out the problem with the title. Furthermore, a lot of people go to the comments first for a variety of reasons. Nothing wrong with that either.
- magicalhippo 7y ago
  I tried skimming it and to me it wasn't too different from what POMO[1] might have come up with if it had been set up to generate a lot denser text. [1]: http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/ http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/
- justnotworthit 7y ago
  There must be a dozen or two "100% of the time" comments. Collect them all and make a mock/parody HN thread.
  - hudibras 7y ago
    * Cryptocurrency * Fiat currency * Economics is not a real science * I understand what the author is trying to say, but I don't like how he says it * I didn't read the piece, but website that published it is problematic * The title is clickbait, and I'm unaware of the concept of newspaper headlines
- einpoklum 7y ago
  Well, yes, but to be honest - very often what they have to say is worthwhile even if you've read the piece. :-P
joi_de_vivre 7y ago
You literally judged it by its title alone, but congratz on knowing how to say ad reductio.

rutierut 7y ago

True but for a lot of people that's pretty much it. It would not be absurd to say: "For my 4 year old soccer is just pushing a ball".

softwarejosh 7y ago
except I remember being 4 and I pretty much never touched that thing slippery bastard

raverbashing 7y ago

Agreed. We might as well say, you're a slave to oxygen and water, then you die.

thefounder 7y ago
Not really. It's not like you are workibg all your life to "earn" oxygen and water. Fortunately(for most of us) we are living in an utopia as far as oxygen and water is concerned. You get them for "free"/with minimal effort.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  First time I’ve read that providing clean water on demand to everyone at a sufficient pressure is “minimal effort”. To me, the infrastructure and experimentation and science that leads to all homes having reliable, potable water is miraculous. There’s very large swaths of the planet where you are supposed to drink only bottled water, from a bottle unsealed in front of you.
  - clarry 7y ago
    > First time I’ve read that providing clean water on demand to everyone at a sufficient pressure is “minimal effort”. Let's look at it from this perspective: what percentage of your country's workforce is actively involved in providing clean water? If it were such a huge effort to provide for relatively basic human needs, then I'd imagine we'd have more people working on that and less people working on advertising, entertainment, rent-seeking, making & marketing disposable novelty products, etc.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      The gist of the argument is that while oxygen is available at no effort, clean, potable water without pathogens and contaminants is certainly not and is a modern miracle. It’s only been a little over 100 years since the discovery of chlorine killing bacteria and whatnot in water. As for what portion of the population is needed to provide clean water, I don’t see how that is a useful or measurable metric. Certainly the discovery process of cleaning the water, the materials science in creating the pipes, learning about lead poisoning and changing that, and so on and so forth is a huge effort in my books. Also, going forward, access to clean water is looking like it will be a source of conflict. It’s not in the timescale of the next 5 to 10 years, so people take it for granted, but certainly the grandchildren of today will have to deal with procuring this “effortless” resources. One might even say the same for oxygen in developing countries where poor people have to live next to factories under a permanent cloud of pollution. They literally can’t go for a run because of a lack of clean air!
  - scroot 7y ago
    > There’s very large swaths of the planet where you are supposed to drink only bottled water Is that the "natural" order of things? Certainly it isn't, at least no more than markets or money represent a "natural order." In fact, we can make a convincing case that the tainting of fresh water is the direct consequence of this kind of market-oriented thought.
    - 34679 7y ago
      You could make that argument, but there appears to be a positive correlation between robust markets and clean drinking water for everyone.
- dangus 7y ago
  Water isn’t the problem, it’s sanitation, as in having flushing toilets and sewers. More people have mobile phones than have access to improved sanitation. Without it, you die early of disease. Humanity really didn’t even control their poop all that well until a couple of hundred years ago with the invention of the modern toilet and the S-trap.
scroot 7y ago
By saying this, you are confirming the author's argument about how (recent) cultures interpret the role of markets in all of life
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Would you prefer to hunter-gather?

fennecfoxen 7y ago

It’s also as old a story as Genesis 3:19. “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

saltyfever 7y ago
Gensis is talking about farmers working the land for food. Modern work is an invention of man built on top of it, it's a degenerate replica in terms of satisifcation, necessity, meaning etc. It's not the same story. Edit: I'd like to see the downvoters argue against the notion that some work is more essential than other work. Hasn't the COVID-19 crisis opened your eyes to this reality?
- netfl0 7y ago
  That is not true. It is a metaphor for generic work.
  - clarry 7y ago
    Did you interview the author? I'd like to read that.
    - tomrod 7y ago
      That particular priest of the priestly class seeking to justify their predation of their bronze-age neighbors is probably dead. So, unfortunately, we are only left with their hagiographal and/or mythical prose.
      - achillesheels 7y ago
        You must be fun at parties.
        tomrod 7y ago
        A blast, yes. Thank you for your personality assessment on a scant sub-tweet sized comment.

payattentionhm 7y ago

Is your comment based solely on the headline? There's an entire article behind it as well, and it's an interesting read.

hudibras 7y ago

In every HN comment section, there's always, 100% of the time, at least one person who only reads the title of the piece (in this case, a song lyric from The Verve) and still has the nerve to post a comment.

wayneftw 7y ago
So what? The headline is dumb. Nothing wrong with pointing that out and saying why. The fact that you say you read the article and this attack was your best comment... well I’d say one of these comments is basically worthless and it’s not the guy who pointed out the problem with the title. Furthermore, a lot of people go to the comments first for a variety of reasons. Nothing wrong with that either.
magicalhippo 7y ago
I tried skimming it and to me it wasn't too different from what POMO[1] might have come up with if it had been set up to generate a lot denser text. [1]: http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/ http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/
justnotworthit 7y ago
There must be a dozen or two "100% of the time" comments. Collect them all and make a mock/parody HN thread.
- hudibras 7y ago
  * Cryptocurrency * Fiat currency * Economics is not a real science * I understand what the author is trying to say, but I don't like how he says it * I didn't read the piece, but website that published it is problematic * The title is clickbait, and I'm unaware of the concept of newspaper headlines
einpoklum 7y ago
Well, yes, but to be honest - very often what they have to say is worthwhile even if you've read the piece. :-P

joi_de_vivre 7y ago

You literally judged it by its title alone, but congratz on knowing how to say ad reductio.