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You’re missing the main point: if the government can do this, it will, independent of this contact tracing platform. Also, there is no location data in this pl

by jmull 7y ago

You’re missing the main point: if the government can do this, it will, independent of this contact tracing platform. Also, there is no location data in this platform, and Google and Apple don’t have the data that does exist. > naive I think you need to understand what’s going on here before you start throwing around words like that.

GordonS 7y ago
> You’re missing the main point: if the government can do this, it will, independent of this contact tracing platform How? I'm not talking about getting a warrant to infiltrate a single suspect's device, I'm talking about mass surveillance. They need a means, and depending on how they approach it, they need to soften up the public so they are willing. Apps like this provide a means - maybe they don't collect everything the security services want from the beginning, but we could see a creeping escalation, especially under coercion by the security services. As for softening up, western governments are already very good at keeping the general populace fearful, whether it be the commies, Russians, Chinese, Islam, terrorists, etc, there is always some boogeyman de jour. Apps like this could be the opportunity they need - the straw that broke the camel's back, convincing people it's all to save lives. "good citizens will use these apps to save lives - what have you got to hide?".
- jmull 7y ago
  We’re already at the bottom of the hill of that slippery slope argument. Nearly everyone already carries the tools of mass surveillance around with them everywhere they go already. What may or may not be partially missing (don’t forget, cell towers are already tracking everyone’s general location and governments can get that data in various ways) is the software and backend systems to collect that data and make it available to governments... and this contact tracing system isn’t that software and doesn’t have back end components. So again: while these privacy concerns are valid, they have nothing to do with this contact tracing system
  - matt_smith123 7y ago
    A key difference for me is that it is way easier for the government to get a company or individual to give up keys or data than it is to get them to write the code to gather data in the first place. I'm sure there are those in government that are quite pleased that Apple and Google are doing it willingly.

by jmull 7y ago

GordonS 7y ago

> You’re missing the main point: if the government can do this, it will, independent of this contact tracing platform How? I'm not talking about getting a warrant to infiltrate a single suspect's device, I'm talking about mass surveillance. They need a means, and depending on how they approach it, they need to soften up the public so they are willing. Apps like this provide a means - maybe they don't collect everything the security services want from the beginning, but we could see a creeping escalation, especially under coercion by the security services. As for softening up, western governments are already very good at keeping the general populace fearful, whether it be the commies, Russians, Chinese, Islam, terrorists, etc, there is always some boogeyman de jour. Apps like this could be the opportunity they need - the straw that broke the camel's back, convincing people it's all to save lives. "good citizens will use these apps to save lives - what have you got to hide?".

jmull 7y ago
We’re already at the bottom of the hill of that slippery slope argument. Nearly everyone already carries the tools of mass surveillance around with them everywhere they go already. What may or may not be partially missing (don’t forget, cell towers are already tracking everyone’s general location and governments can get that data in various ways) is the software and backend systems to collect that data and make it available to governments... and this contact tracing system isn’t that software and doesn’t have back end components. So again: while these privacy concerns are valid, they have nothing to do with this contact tracing system
- matt_smith123 7y ago
  A key difference for me is that it is way easier for the government to get a company or individual to give up keys or data than it is to get them to write the code to gather data in the first place. I'm sure there are those in government that are quite pleased that Apple and Google are doing it willingly.