12 ms·

The internet’s fifth man (2013)

82 points by davidwtbuxton 6y ago

prescojan 6y ago
>Louis Pouzin helped create the internet Bing part of creating such a main element in the world it's just crazy
davidwtbuxton 6y ago
I found this article via Wikipedia as a result of wondering why unix shells are named so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Was your question answered?
  - davidwtbuxton 6y ago
    From the article: > That program, which he described as a “shell” around the computer’s whirring innards, gave inspiration—and a name—to an entire class of software tools, called command-line shells, that still lurk below the surface of modern operating systems.
ggm 6y ago
A significantly underrated progenitor. Not always recognised, and certainly not reflected adequately in the official historia recited often by Americans.
- ghaff 6y ago
  While I don't disagree, there is always a tendency to elevate a few people even when inventions are the collective works of many. Pouzin's contributions were important and he did coin the datagram term. At the same time, he built on earlier packet switching work by Paul Baran at RAND and Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory.
  - notacoward 6y ago
    I've always wondered: who actually wrote the software for IMPs and such? Who debugged the lower-level (but still essential) operational issues? Was it the people we've heard of, or others whose contributions we've forgotten? I'm guessing the latter, but it's hard to be sure this much later.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      RFC 1 lists a few of the people who were involved: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1
  - ggm 6y ago
    Yes, Donald Davies goes on the same plinth. Baran was taught in our networks lectures in the early eighties. I worked with other NPL staff on OSI systems in the later eighties, nice people.
battery_cowboy 6y ago
This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on my small areas of influence at work and in my personal projects.
- rmellow 6y ago
  > This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today. Agreed! Why is that the style today? I've heard it has something to do with SEO but I'm unsure how, or if there are other reasons. This trend makes my skimming habit so much worse, because it actually justifies skipping ahead to meaningful words.
  - mannykannot 6y ago
    Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style; while the former may start off as the latter, it takes a lot of editing to hone it into a sharp implement.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      > Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style... Totally true, but I think that's not what's happening. Yesterday an HN post was made about this https://lithub.com/the-wolves-of-stanislav-an-improbably-true-parable-for-the-pandemic-age/ https://lithub.com/the-wolves-of-stanislav-an-improbably-tru... It's carefully written to be like that, it's verbose by design, and I started skimming then closed it. I don't know why these timewaster articles are produced either, but it's not accident or laziness. Plenty irritating though.
      - mannykannot 6y ago
        Perhaps there's a generation that has seen little else, and takes this to be the best or only way to write? Are we teaching people to write this way, with examinations having a time limit and where, in practice, the score correlates strongly with length? (Though that has been the case for a long time.) Is concise writing taken to be difficult-textbook style, and undesirable anywhere else? Print media editors necessarily have to constrain length, and authors learned to write accordingly. Nowadays, a lot of writing is unconstrained either by physical limits or editors. The specific example you give appears to be intentionally literary in intent, and so conciseness is not necessarily a prime virtue. When authors were paid by the word, prolixity was effectively encouraged, and this is obvious in some of Poe's work.
sergiovmdo 6y ago
LOOOL
mettamage 6y ago
This guy invented the datagram?! How in the world is this not recognized earlier? He got awarded in 2003, but that is still way too late. I think we should have a list in which all stories of underdeserved computer scientists should be displayed. Alan Turing's example is a well-known one. I still can't believe how he was treated. But apparently he isn't the only example of being underdeserved.
mannykannot 6y ago
The term 'fifth man', especially in a British publication, tends to suggest cold-war spying (Anthony Blunt was number 4. As it happens, he also received royal honors, in a time when his unmasking was a closely held secret within British intelligence.)
- gandalfian 6y ago
  I thought the Beatles lots of people were said to be the "fifth" Beatle.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
reverendbyte 6y ago
There is the website http://www.pouzinsociety.org http://www.pouzinsociety.org that covers new network architectures, also John Day quoted in the article has written a good book about networking history and future paths in “patterns in network architecture”
convolvatron 6y ago
unsurprisingly, he suffered politcal headwinds from the connection-oriented telco people. i wonder how visible that religious war is through the mists of time. how much duplication of effort and fighting at cross purposes .. I guess up until the failure of ATM and eventual submission to voice over ip. pretty sad how much effort was expended on things like gossip, and how many standards were warped in an attempt at reconciliation.
pteraspidomorph 6y ago
> Based in California and very loosely accountable to America’s Department of Commerce Is this still true?

82 points by davidwtbuxton 6y ago

>Louis Pouzin helped create the internet Bing part of creating such a main element in the world it's just crazy

I found this article via Wikipedia as a result of wondering why unix shells are named so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)

quickthrower2 6y ago
Was your question answered?
- davidwtbuxton 6y ago
  From the article: > That program, which he described as a “shell” around the computer’s whirring innards, gave inspiration—and a name—to an entire class of software tools, called command-line shells, that still lurk below the surface of modern operating systems.

ggm 6y ago

A significantly underrated progenitor. Not always recognised, and certainly not reflected adequately in the official historia recited often by Americans.

ghaff 6y ago
While I don't disagree, there is always a tendency to elevate a few people even when inventions are the collective works of many. Pouzin's contributions were important and he did coin the datagram term. At the same time, he built on earlier packet switching work by Paul Baran at RAND and Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory.
- notacoward 6y ago
  I've always wondered: who actually wrote the software for IMPs and such? Who debugged the lower-level (but still essential) operational issues? Was it the people we've heard of, or others whose contributions we've forgotten? I'm guessing the latter, but it's hard to be sure this much later.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    RFC 1 lists a few of the people who were involved: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1
- ggm 6y ago
  Yes, Donald Davies goes on the same plinth. Baran was taught in our networks lectures in the early eighties. I worked with other NPL staff on OSI systems in the later eighties, nice people.

battery_cowboy 6y ago

This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today, it's just filled with the history of a man who was one of several who founded the internet and no more. I agree with him that we need to keep iterating the foundations of the internet and keep it open and protect against the corporate takeover. I'm not sure how best to do that so I guess all I can do is work on my small areas of influence at work and in my personal projects.

rmellow 6y ago
> This was one of the best articles I've read lately, it's not filled with empty prose as is the style today. Agreed! Why is that the style today? I've heard it has something to do with SEO but I'm unsure how, or if there are other reasons. This trend makes my skimming habit so much worse, because it actually justifies skipping ahead to meaningful words.
- mannykannot 6y ago
  Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style; while the former may start off as the latter, it takes a lot of editing to hone it into a sharp implement.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    > Writing concise prose is harder than the stream-of-consciousness style... Totally true, but I think that's not what's happening. Yesterday an HN post was made about this https://lithub.com/the-wolves-of-stanislav-an-improbably-true-parable-for-the-pandemic-age/ https://lithub.com/the-wolves-of-stanislav-an-improbably-tru... It's carefully written to be like that, it's verbose by design, and I started skimming then closed it. I don't know why these timewaster articles are produced either, but it's not accident or laziness. Plenty irritating though.
    - mannykannot 6y ago
      Perhaps there's a generation that has seen little else, and takes this to be the best or only way to write? Are we teaching people to write this way, with examinations having a time limit and where, in practice, the score correlates strongly with length? (Though that has been the case for a long time.) Is concise writing taken to be difficult-textbook style, and undesirable anywhere else? Print media editors necessarily have to constrain length, and authors learned to write accordingly. Nowadays, a lot of writing is unconstrained either by physical limits or editors. The specific example you give appears to be intentionally literary in intent, and so conciseness is not necessarily a prime virtue. When authors were paid by the word, prolixity was effectively encouraged, and this is obvious in some of Poe's work.

sergiovmdo 6y ago

LOOOL

mettamage 6y ago

This guy invented the datagram?! How in the world is this not recognized earlier? He got awarded in 2003, but that is still way too late. I think we should have a list in which all stories of underdeserved computer scientists should be displayed. Alan Turing's example is a well-known one. I still can't believe how he was treated. But apparently he isn't the only example of being underdeserved.

mannykannot 6y ago

The term 'fifth man', especially in a British publication, tends to suggest cold-war spying (Anthony Blunt was number 4. As it happens, he also received royal honors, in a time when his unmasking was a closely held secret within British intelligence.)

gandalfian 6y ago
I thought the Beatles lots of people were said to be the "fifth" Beatle.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

reverendbyte 6y ago

There is the website http://www.pouzinsociety.org http://www.pouzinsociety.org that covers new network architectures, also John Day quoted in the article has written a good book about networking history and future paths in “patterns in network architecture”

convolvatron 6y ago

unsurprisingly, he suffered politcal headwinds from the connection-oriented telco people. i wonder how visible that religious war is through the mists of time. how much duplication of effort and fighting at cross purposes .. I guess up until the failure of ATM and eventual submission to voice over ip. pretty sad how much effort was expended on things like gossip, and how many standards were warped in an attempt at reconciliation.

pteraspidomorph 6y ago

> Based in California and very loosely accountable to America’s Department of Commerce Is this still true?