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The blog entry is quite good, but it seems to suggest that the breakthrough consists in analyzing living organisms through the lenses of information theory. Thi
by tmcb 6y ago
The blog entry is quite good, but it seems to suggest that the breakthrough consists in analyzing living organisms through the lenses of information theory. This is not a mistake in itself, but a shallow perspective nonetheless: information theory is, supposedly, a mathematical representation of the ways our brains make sense of the world around. The blog entry accidentally gives leeway to readers think that there is some intrinsic quality to living beings that transforms dull matter into information propagation channels.
As expected, the article does a better job in setting aside this line of reasoning[1]. What you are really measuring is how information is persisted over time, and over the "background noise" of environment. They specifically talk about viruses at a point, and the usual odd distinction of them being not quite living creatures. When they are found sitting outside their hosts, it is very hard to point out if they actually carry information over time.
[1] Disclaimer: I have just skim-read it.
- nil-sec 6y agoMaybe I misunderstood you here but I don’t think information theory and in particular entropy has anything to do with “our brain”. It’s simply a statement of the number of micro states in a system. There is no requirement for reading them out or having a brain look at it. This value exists without observer. In that sense there is indeed an intrinsic quality to living beings that leads them to have a reduced number of micro states. They spend energy to keep it that way over time.
- tmcb 6y agoI know this is a pretty bold claim, but it is hard to overlook the idea that information theory as proposed by Claude Shannon works as a model of information as related to human cognition, and that it does not imply that information is a fundamental property of the physical universe. There are several interviews in which he mentioned that the understanding of how the human brain works was one of his main inquiries. His work on AI and the Theseus. And the seminal paper on information theory contains a section in which a fidelity evaluation function is defined with relation to the human ear and brain.
- nil-sec 6y agoShannon wasn’t the first to think about entropy. It’s a general concept that is hugely important in thermodynamics and statistical physics. Information theory itself becomes increasingly more important in fundamental physics, see the firewall problem of black holes. It’s even harder to overlook these ideas and claim the human brain and our ears are somehow relevant to the definition of information and entropy.
- tmcb 6y agoIndeed, he was not the first at all. The concept of thermodynamic entropy predates, with a huge margin, its information theoretical counterpart. You make it look like I am saying there is a mystical property of the human brain that backs the validity of information theory, an assertion that has no resemblance at all which what I am attempting to express, and sits in the same category the ones I am trying to debate against do. What I am trying to say is that there is no meaning in a teleological interpretation of information theory. Things like “the purpose of living organisms is to propagate information” contradict information theory because there is no such a concept as absolute information, you always define it on mutual terms.
- morelisp 6y ago> there is no such a concept as absolute information, you always define it on mutual terms. This is true of classical information theory, but not (as I understand it) algorithmic information theory. I think the jury is still out on whether it makes philosophical sense to generalize over universal machines like AIT does, and the practical applications compared to classical information theory seem minimal, from a layman's view it seems like it's been mathematically very fruitful.
- tmcb 6y agoMy understanding is that, in order to recognize information, you should at least compare it to the outputs of a source of entropy. It is a common mistake to conflate information and entropy. A bad analogy to mechanics is that the outputs of an entropy source are the frame of reference, the signal is a body and information might be whatever property you wish to analyze, such as velocity or acceleration.
- tmcb 6y agoIf I could edit the parent comment, I would replace “our brains” by “an observer”, which is common physics parlance. As far as I know, all uses of information-theorical approaches outside of its original scope also involve a scenario where an observer is originally unable to formulate a model that allow them to draw conclusions from alleged discrepancies. This paper is just one more example of that. This somehow reminded me of the following quote by Bertrand Russell. “Physics is mathematical not because we know so much about the physical world, but because we know so little; it is only its mathematical properties that we can discover.”