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They should, and when they come back asking for it all to be undone they should say no. Let them swim for a little bit so france does not try this again. This w

They should, and when they come back asking for it all to be undone they should say no. Let them swim for a little bit so france does not try this again. This was tried in spain, and quickly reversed.

Marsymars 7y ago
> This was tried in spain, and quickly reversed. No it wasn't, Google News is still not available in Spain.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
So what you're saying is Google should have more power and authority than actual nations.
- renewiltord 7y ago
  There's no total order of power and authority. I want the US government to not have the power and authority to set up and run a church but I want that power and authority, and I'm pretty sure I want Google to have that power and authority. So yeah, I want Google to be able to say "I don't want to list papers that won't do this for free", yes.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    > I want Google to be able to say "I don't want to list papers that won't do this for free" That's up to the french people to decide. Google negotiating with nations as if it was a trade agreement between equals would mean we're living in a cyberpunk dystopia.
    - renewiltord 7y ago
      That's the dream. When governments cannot simply impose their will on me at a whim. The fault isn't that Google can negotiate as an equal. The fault is that I can't negotiate as an equal when I want to marry a man or abort a foetus or drug myself. And I'd rather erode the power of the government than of myself every single time. And I'm pretty sure the French people don't get to decide what I want. Only I get to decide that.
      - Talanes 7y ago
        >And I'm pretty sure the French people don't get to decide what I want. Only I get to decide that. Great. You don't get to decide what the French people want either.
        renewiltord 7y ago
        Haha, that's exactly right. But what they get is the end of the negotiation that occurs and it won't necessarily be what they want.
- panzagl 7y ago
  Yes. In most cases even individual persons should have more power and authority than actual nations.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    Individuals? Yeah. Corporations? No. There is a significant power difference between individuals and corporations and it should be balanced by justice.
    - Nerdfest 7y ago
      Damn, did we ever get that one wrong.
- wolco 7y ago
  Should easter island be able to demand you pay them because one of its citizens visited your site? Should you cane a female employee because a nation demanded it? Nations shouldn't have unlimited power over a company.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  More power than France? Yeah. For one thing, Google is not a French company, so there's no reasonable justification for France to exert any control over them. For another, it seems clear that one of the key lessons of the 21st century is that democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's essentially government by the majority of a population that's almost evenly distributed on the IQ bell curve. In a stark contrast to the membership of the National Assembly, those on the left side of the intelligence distribution can be brought to consensus far more easily than those on the right. With their history, France should understand that better than most other countries. The input of their government, democratic or otherwise, should not be a factor in Google's decisionmaking process.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    > For one thing, Google is not a French company, so there's no reasonable justification for France to exert any control over them. There is ample justification. They are dealing with french citizens on french soil. Google could have chosen to block all of France instead, thereby losing all the revenue it derives from the french people. It didn't.
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      No. If those French citizens don't voluntarily establish a TCP/IP connection to google.com, they will have no dealings with Google. (Well, that's not entirely true, but it is an entirely separate debate.) If the French government has a beef with anyone, it's with their own people, who stubbornly refuse to use Videotex or whatever the homegrown French alternative is these days. You don't want to go down this path, believe me. It will destroy the Internet in mind, body, and spirit.
      - Talanes 7y ago
        >If the French government has a beef with anyone, it's with their own people, who stubbornly refuse to use Videotex or whatever the homegrown French alternative is these days. This isn't a gang war for turf, France does not "have a beef" with Google. They have made laws for their country, and are enforcing those laws. Google has the freedom to comply or GTFO, simple as that.

Marsymars 7y ago

> This was tried in spain, and quickly reversed. No it wasn't, Google News is still not available in Spain.

matheusmoreira 7y ago

So what you're saying is Google should have more power and authority than actual nations.

renewiltord 7y ago
There's no total order of power and authority. I want the US government to not have the power and authority to set up and run a church but I want that power and authority, and I'm pretty sure I want Google to have that power and authority. So yeah, I want Google to be able to say "I don't want to list papers that won't do this for free", yes.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  > I want Google to be able to say "I don't want to list papers that won't do this for free" That's up to the french people to decide. Google negotiating with nations as if it was a trade agreement between equals would mean we're living in a cyberpunk dystopia.
  - renewiltord 7y ago
    That's the dream. When governments cannot simply impose their will on me at a whim. The fault isn't that Google can negotiate as an equal. The fault is that I can't negotiate as an equal when I want to marry a man or abort a foetus or drug myself. And I'd rather erode the power of the government than of myself every single time. And I'm pretty sure the French people don't get to decide what I want. Only I get to decide that.
    - Talanes 7y ago
      >And I'm pretty sure the French people don't get to decide what I want. Only I get to decide that. Great. You don't get to decide what the French people want either.
      - renewiltord 7y ago
        Haha, that's exactly right. But what they get is the end of the negotiation that occurs and it won't necessarily be what they want.
panzagl 7y ago
Yes. In most cases even individual persons should have more power and authority than actual nations.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  Individuals? Yeah. Corporations? No. There is a significant power difference between individuals and corporations and it should be balanced by justice.
  - Nerdfest 7y ago
    Damn, did we ever get that one wrong.
wolco 7y ago
Should easter island be able to demand you pay them because one of its citizens visited your site? Should you cane a female employee because a nation demanded it? Nations shouldn't have unlimited power over a company.
CamperBob2 7y ago
More power than France? Yeah. For one thing, Google is not a French company, so there's no reasonable justification for France to exert any control over them. For another, it seems clear that one of the key lessons of the 21st century is that democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's essentially government by the majority of a population that's almost evenly distributed on the IQ bell curve. In a stark contrast to the membership of the National Assembly, those on the left side of the intelligence distribution can be brought to consensus far more easily than those on the right. With their history, France should understand that better than most other countries. The input of their government, democratic or otherwise, should not be a factor in Google's decisionmaking process.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  > For one thing, Google is not a French company, so there's no reasonable justification for France to exert any control over them. There is ample justification. They are dealing with french citizens on french soil. Google could have chosen to block all of France instead, thereby losing all the revenue it derives from the french people. It didn't.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    No. If those French citizens don't voluntarily establish a TCP/IP connection to google.com, they will have no dealings with Google. (Well, that's not entirely true, but it is an entirely separate debate.) If the French government has a beef with anyone, it's with their own people, who stubbornly refuse to use Videotex or whatever the homegrown French alternative is these days. You don't want to go down this path, believe me. It will destroy the Internet in mind, body, and spirit.
    - Talanes 7y ago
      >If the French government has a beef with anyone, it's with their own people, who stubbornly refuse to use Videotex or whatever the homegrown French alternative is these days. This isn't a gang war for turf, France does not "have a beef" with Google. They have made laws for their country, and are enforcing those laws. Google has the freedom to comply or GTFO, simple as that.