3 ms·

Yes, the problem is not that a seasoned practitioner cannot internalize just about any quirk, typically historical. The problem is that a first-time learner al

by K0SM0S 7y ago

Yes, the problem is not that a seasoned practitioner cannot internalize just about any quirk, typically historical. The problem is that a first-time learner already has their mind full with information (we can only ever hold ~7 items in working memory, cognitively, so make sure each one counts when teaching anything).

beagle3 7y ago
This reasoning taken a little farther would say that APl is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. Also, it is unrelated to what I said - namely that “let” disambiguates the two meanings of the equal sign, which from my (and not just my) experience is a heavy cognitive load on people new to programming.
- K0SM0S 7y ago
  I was replying to this specific part, which I should have quoted. Sorry. > But statements such as "x = x + 1" ARE confusing to newcomers, from my experience Merely elaborating. Indeed, `let` does reduce cognitive load, it's one less "new thing" to keep in working memory¹ (this is the specific part of human cognition that we use to reason directly, "human RAM" for lack of a better term). I'm not sure how it's unrelated... nevermind. I got misunderstood in my comments all day, must be Venus. :) ____ 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory ____ Edit: I fail to see why this: > This reasoning taken a little farther would say that APl is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. Could you explain?
  - beagle3 7y ago
    Sorry, I thought you were implying "let" would be one more thing to remember (taking one of the ~7 slots), and that's why we SHOULDN'T use it. > APL is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. (that was a lower case L typing on phone, sorrt). APL code is incredibly short - 7 APL chars are usually equivalent to 50-100 in other languages. One would expect that would make it easy to master & read, but experience from the last 60 years or so shows that's not true.
    - K0SM0S 7y ago
      Ah, fair enough. Re-reading my comment, I once more failed to remove ambiguity. My bad. For clarity, we SHOULD use `let` with beginners, and any such pre-existing concept whenever possible. There's a time to reinvent some wheels I guess, but while first learning to drive certainly isn't it. APL, haha gotcha. Way to zero-in on the edgest perfect case! It indubitably shows how a "short" form is not necessarily cognitively "light", which has everything to do with familiarity in my book— a sizeable body of knowledge already internalized, already abstracted into a symbol or form— e.g. "let x", or a function whatever the abbreviation, the logical construct if... then... else, etc. Indeed should I speak to you in "objects you know" as a basis for language, chances are translation is possible between my ideas and those fundamental bricks of yours— some arragement thereof, that encodes whatever I want to convey. This is where/how actual pedagogy begins for me (totally layman perception, no formal training whatsoever). But failing the basic math background, these concepts fall back one-step removed from cognitive ease. I find it's extremely useful to speak in whatever domain language fits the student's background. Meet them halfway there so to speak, if I can help it.

by K0SM0S 7y ago

beagle3 7y ago

This reasoning taken a little farther would say that APl is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. Also, it is unrelated to what I said - namely that “let” disambiguates the two meanings of the equal sign, which from my (and not just my) experience is a heavy cognitive load on people new to programming.

K0SM0S 7y ago
I was replying to this specific part, which I should have quoted. Sorry. > But statements such as "x = x + 1" ARE confusing to newcomers, from my experience Merely elaborating. Indeed, `let` does reduce cognitive load, it's one less "new thing" to keep in working memory¹ (this is the specific part of human cognition that we use to reason directly, "human RAM" for lack of a better term). I'm not sure how it's unrelated... nevermind. I got misunderstood in my comments all day, must be Venus. :) ____ 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory ____ Edit: I fail to see why this: > This reasoning taken a little farther would say that APl is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. Could you explain?
- beagle3 7y ago
  Sorry, I thought you were implying "let" would be one more thing to remember (taking one of the ~7 slots), and that's why we SHOULDN'T use it. > APL is by far the cognitively easiest language, which is demonstrably false. (that was a lower case L typing on phone, sorrt). APL code is incredibly short - 7 APL chars are usually equivalent to 50-100 in other languages. One would expect that would make it easy to master & read, but experience from the last 60 years or so shows that's not true.
  - K0SM0S 7y ago
    Ah, fair enough. Re-reading my comment, I once more failed to remove ambiguity. My bad. For clarity, we SHOULD use `let` with beginners, and any such pre-existing concept whenever possible. There's a time to reinvent some wheels I guess, but while first learning to drive certainly isn't it. APL, haha gotcha. Way to zero-in on the edgest perfect case! It indubitably shows how a "short" form is not necessarily cognitively "light", which has everything to do with familiarity in my book— a sizeable body of knowledge already internalized, already abstracted into a symbol or form— e.g. "let x", or a function whatever the abbreviation, the logical construct if... then... else, etc. Indeed should I speak to you in "objects you know" as a basis for language, chances are translation is possible between my ideas and those fundamental bricks of yours— some arragement thereof, that encodes whatever I want to convey. This is where/how actual pedagogy begins for me (totally layman perception, no formal training whatsoever). But failing the basic math background, these concepts fall back one-step removed from cognitive ease. I find it's extremely useful to speak in whatever domain language fits the student's background. Meet them halfway there so to speak, if I can help it.