4 ms·

Once you get complexity past the ability to do horizontal transission, and past the point where divergent species can no longer interbreed, it pretty much becom

Once you get complexity past the ability to do horizontal transission, and past the point where divergent species can no longer interbreed, it pretty much becomes a tree I think. If not, please show me where 2 branches rejoin where there's no H transmission nor mutual fertility. > the whole kingdom-order-genus-species thing is muddy and ill-defined Well yes, it's somewhat an arbitrary construct for human convenience, but isn't much of the muddiness down to our limited understanding of the true relationships? Regarding "cadherin/catenin or how epithelia are formed to see how a tissue is much more than a bundle of cells." could you give a link cos this is so far outside my area I really don't know what to look for (wiki article on Catenin wasn't very revealing of your point, sorry if I missed it)

klyrs 7y ago
> If not, please show me where 2 branches rejoin where there's no H transmission nor mutual fertility. Viral infections modify host DNA, and can also incorporate host DNA -- this is a mechanism by which lateral gene transfer can occur between macroscopic organisms. The platypus has mammal, reptile and avian DNA, and they seem to have come about long after those branches diverged -- evidence that lateral gene transfers occur between macroscopic organisms.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  WTF horizontal gene transfer = platypus!?!? Show me some paper on this. I mean an actual scientific paper, not a paper used to roll a yard-long spliff.
  - klyrs 7y ago
    Google is free and your aggro stance doesn't encourage me to satisfy your petulant demand.
    - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
      Well I wouldn't normally but because you're so obviously wrong I thought I'd try. First, I can't find any reference to what you claim. The platypus is a mammal, end of, AFAICT. It has kept features from it's long evolutionary path (split off other mammals 165 million years ago) but no evidence of it being from gene-jumping I could find. eg. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828261&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828261&page=1 But then accidentally discovered this about gene transfer albeit in another area: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180709101216.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180709101216.h... "This process is called horizontal transfer, differing from the normal parent-offspring transfer, and it's had an enormous impact on mammalian evolution." For example, Professor Adelson says, 25% of the genome of cows and sheep is derived from jumping genes. OK, thanks!
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Relating to platypus and horizontal gene transfer, I found this, which seems to be not quite what you're talking about: Horizontal transfer of BovB and L1 retrotransposons in eukaryotes. Genome Biology, 19(1). doi:10.1186/s13059-018-1456-7 Regardless, horizontal gene transfer certainly does happen.
      - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
        Your paper is what the article I quoted seems to have been based on. It also mentions L1 and BovB. Well, I have some serious taking back to do!
        pacman83 7y ago
        If you'd like a curated collection of many papers on horizontal gene transfer in eukaryotes, it comprises much of the evidence presented at https://www.panspermia.org/archindex.htm https://www.panspermia.org/archindex.htm . Having followed this collection since 2010, I have gotten the sense that horizontal gene transfer to/from eukaryotes is not only common but an important mechanism of evolution.
        throwaway4585 7y ago
        Yeah most people think evolution is just natural selection and accidental mutations, which is a high schooler understanding's of it. I'm not being derogatory, it's literally what I learned in high school and I don't blame people for not digging further if they haven't taken classes afterwards.
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't be a jerk in comments on HN, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (I took a quick look at your account's past comments and didn't see any previous history of this, which is great.)
- pacman83 7y ago
  Do you like https://www.panspermia.org https://www.panspermia.org ? I read their "what's new" often and like it a lot.
Someone 7y ago
”past the point where divergent species can no longer interbreed” Species S may no longer interbreed with species T, but that does not imply they’ve separated completely. There may exist intermediate species U...Z that link them together (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species)

klyrs 7y ago

> If not, please show me where 2 branches rejoin where there's no H transmission nor mutual fertility. Viral infections modify host DNA, and can also incorporate host DNA -- this is a mechanism by which lateral gene transfer can occur between macroscopic organisms. The platypus has mammal, reptile and avian DNA, and they seem to have come about long after those branches diverged -- evidence that lateral gene transfers occur between macroscopic organisms.

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
WTF horizontal gene transfer = platypus!?!? Show me some paper on this. I mean an actual scientific paper, not a paper used to roll a yard-long spliff.
- klyrs 7y ago
  Google is free and your aggro stance doesn't encourage me to satisfy your petulant demand.
  - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
    Well I wouldn't normally but because you're so obviously wrong I thought I'd try. First, I can't find any reference to what you claim. The platypus is a mammal, end of, AFAICT. It has kept features from it's long evolutionary path (split off other mammals 165 million years ago) but no evidence of it being from gene-jumping I could find. eg. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828261&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828261&page=1 But then accidentally discovered this about gene transfer albeit in another area: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180709101216.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180709101216.h... "This process is called horizontal transfer, differing from the normal parent-offspring transfer, and it's had an enormous impact on mammalian evolution." For example, Professor Adelson says, 25% of the genome of cows and sheep is derived from jumping genes. OK, thanks!
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Relating to platypus and horizontal gene transfer, I found this, which seems to be not quite what you're talking about: Horizontal transfer of BovB and L1 retrotransposons in eukaryotes. Genome Biology, 19(1). doi:10.1186/s13059-018-1456-7 Regardless, horizontal gene transfer certainly does happen.
    - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
      Your paper is what the article I quoted seems to have been based on. It also mentions L1 and BovB. Well, I have some serious taking back to do!
      - pacman83 7y ago
        If you'd like a curated collection of many papers on horizontal gene transfer in eukaryotes, it comprises much of the evidence presented at https://www.panspermia.org/archindex.htm https://www.panspermia.org/archindex.htm . Having followed this collection since 2010, I have gotten the sense that horizontal gene transfer to/from eukaryotes is not only common but an important mechanism of evolution.
        throwaway4585 7y ago
        Yeah most people think evolution is just natural selection and accidental mutations, which is a high schooler understanding's of it. I'm not being derogatory, it's literally what I learned in high school and I don't blame people for not digging further if they haven't taken classes afterwards.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't be a jerk in comments on HN, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (I took a quick look at your account's past comments and didn't see any previous history of this, which is great.)
pacman83 7y ago
Do you like https://www.panspermia.org https://www.panspermia.org ? I read their "what's new" often and like it a lot.

Someone 7y ago

”past the point where divergent species can no longer interbreed” Species S may no longer interbreed with species T, but that does not imply they’ve separated completely. There may exist intermediate species U...Z that link them together (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species)