3 ms·

> Which democratic government could mandate the use of this type of tracking forever yet not be able to impose it against people’s will? First they'd have to c

> Which democratic government could mandate the use of this type of tracking forever yet not be able to impose it against people’s will? First they'd have to coerce two US-based companies to implement the technology. For example, imagine UK.gov ( pop 60 million ) telling Apple ( 250 million annual iPhone sales ) to do so. Secondly they'd have to coerce their population into using the feature. Without a clear public benefit I suspect there would be workarounds and hacks within days to dilute its effectiveness. However, implement it under global public health reasons and coercion is much easier. Protect the NHS, keep your tracking app active! Don't turn your phone off when out exercising! Keep your phone with you at all times... for the public good. > Maybe I’m used to governments that people trust and that are simply doing what voters want Any such governments come to mind?

alkonaut 7y ago
> Without a clear public benefit I suspect there would be workarounds and hacks within days to dilute its effectiveness. Exaxtly. Governments can easily do this, because they already have the bigger tool at their disposal: lockdowns. People in prisons choose to wear an electronic tracker to spend the last year of a sentence at home. Their freedom was already taken, and the monitoring is a way to get some of it back. No one turns that down out of fear the government won’t remove the tracking thing around their ankle. “No thanks I don’t trust them to take it off after a year so I’m staying in the cell”, said no one ever. If you don’t trust them to take it off after a year why would you trust them to unlock your cell door? Of course the public will choose to use this tech if the alternative is less freedom. So yes people will voluntarily use this because of peer pressure and because the alternative is worse. At least they will do so in countries with high trust in goverment, the public healthcare system and a strong sense of community in crisis (this is where I would have thought the UK would be the obvious example!). “For the public good” is very persuasive to me - while “for your own good” might work better in other places. > Any such governments come to mind? Most Western European governments I would have thought? I (Scandinavian) always considered the government to be “me”, not “them”.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  And the way governments would take advantage of this is by having devices everywhere exchanging IDs so that when somebody has a disease, those devices will let the government figure out some of the places they've been? This sounds too roundabout to make any sense. The government can already request location history from cell phone providers and Google if it has a warrant. Why go through all that trouble to get lower quality data?

alkonaut 7y ago

> Without a clear public benefit I suspect there would be workarounds and hacks within days to dilute its effectiveness. Exaxtly. Governments can easily do this, because they already have the bigger tool at their disposal: lockdowns. People in prisons choose to wear an electronic tracker to spend the last year of a sentence at home. Their freedom was already taken, and the monitoring is a way to get some of it back. No one turns that down out of fear the government won’t remove the tracking thing around their ankle. “No thanks I don’t trust them to take it off after a year so I’m staying in the cell”, said no one ever. If you don’t trust them to take it off after a year why would you trust them to unlock your cell door? Of course the public will choose to use this tech if the alternative is less freedom. So yes people will voluntarily use this because of peer pressure and because the alternative is worse. At least they will do so in countries with high trust in goverment, the public healthcare system and a strong sense of community in crisis (this is where I would have thought the UK would be the obvious example!). “For the public good” is very persuasive to me - while “for your own good” might work better in other places. > Any such governments come to mind? Most Western European governments I would have thought? I (Scandinavian) always considered the government to be “me”, not “them”.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
And the way governments would take advantage of this is by having devices everywhere exchanging IDs so that when somebody has a disease, those devices will let the government figure out some of the places they've been? This sounds too roundabout to make any sense. The government can already request location history from cell phone providers and Google if it has a warrant. Why go through all that trouble to get lower quality data?