4 ms·

The point is that they don't need to be networkers, because they will be networkees. i.e. other people will notice how good they are, and actively try to get th

The point is that they don't need to be networkers, because they will be networkees. i.e. other people will notice how good they are, and actively try to get them into appropriate jobs. I think this is largely true, though it takes a while for reputation to spread. There are some brilliant young developers who haven't yet been noticed by anybody in a position to hire them -- but they won't stay in that situation more than a couple of years. The exception is somebody who is excellent, but stuck inside one company and not producing any publicly-available code. If she isn't actively promoting herself, it's possible nobody will ever notice her talent.

aoschadlin 16y ago
I agree whole heartedly with this point. I currently work for a large bay area company and I noticed a new intern come on board who just has the 'X' factor, and could well turn into that top 1% or close to it. Needless to say I'll most likely approach him as my first hire when I get to that stage with my own startup.
pnathan 16y ago
I'm not sure your exception is an exception. In the company I work for, there are some amazingly bright guys, but I don't hear about them being in any open-source project. I would suspect only the interns and a few of the younger guys have code published on bitbucket or whatever.
rch 16y ago
Individual talent is still evident on developer mailing lists, discussion groups, etc. A quick example: http://9fans.net/archive/?q=rsc&go=Grep http://9fans.net/archive/?q=rsc&go=Grep
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Honestly...I don't think that search evidences talent at all. If I didn't already know who Russ Cox was (and seen his code in projects like Google CodeSearch, re2, and Go), I'd think him just another Internet idiot. There is a big difference between watching someone code and watching them talk about coding. Ability in the latter is not indicative of ability in the former.
  - rch 16y ago
    Being able to recognize the innate potential of others by indirect means is itself a talent.
  - rch 16y ago
    and, mate... "We have to interview so-and-so. I know him from Hacker News and he's clearly smart." -- http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pg http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pg -- http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html?s2011 http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html?s2011
pasbesoin 16y ago
A small thought/question: How do "we own all your IP" employment agreements influence and affect the power/mobility of such people? I'm not arguing that they are a factor. Just asking -- in part, as a thought exercise.
caseysoftware 16y ago
"The exception is somebody who is excellent, but stuck inside one company and not producing any publicly-available code. If she isn't actively promoting herself, it's possible nobody will ever notice her talent." Their boss will.. and their coworkers (above and below) will. There have been a number of times that I've been asked for a recommendation and referred someone that was a past supervisor, team lead, etc.
moomba 16y ago
There are some real smart people that don't have business savvy or street smarts. Its easy to get locked into a big dumb corporation that doesn't recognize talent. You could spend a long time in a place like that and not realize your potential. After all, most kids still go through college and work at "safe" jobs.
- dpritchett 16y ago
  There's an inherent information asymmetry in the job market too. Think of great coders who grow up in the middle of nowhere and get a job in the nearest city. They don't know what the vets at their company in Birmingham, AL are making. All they know is that the coders on HN all say "at least $100k for a dev in the bay area". You need to do a lot of footwork and networking to build an accurate picture of the employment market in a region.
bootload 16y ago
"... other people will notice how good they are, and actively try to get them into appropriate jobs. ..." Do you mean, "other people who work with them" or "other people who notice them"? I ask this because how do you tell if someone is a great hacker unless you work with them?

aoschadlin 16y ago

I agree whole heartedly with this point. I currently work for a large bay area company and I noticed a new intern come on board who just has the 'X' factor, and could well turn into that top 1% or close to it. Needless to say I'll most likely approach him as my first hire when I get to that stage with my own startup.

pnathan 16y ago

I'm not sure your exception is an exception. In the company I work for, there are some amazingly bright guys, but I don't hear about them being in any open-source project. I would suspect only the interns and a few of the younger guys have code published on bitbucket or whatever.

rch 16y ago

Individual talent is still evident on developer mailing lists, discussion groups, etc. A quick example: http://9fans.net/archive/?q=rsc&go=Grep http://9fans.net/archive/?q=rsc&go=Grep

nostrademons 16y ago
Honestly...I don't think that search evidences talent at all. If I didn't already know who Russ Cox was (and seen his code in projects like Google CodeSearch, re2, and Go), I'd think him just another Internet idiot. There is a big difference between watching someone code and watching them talk about coding. Ability in the latter is not indicative of ability in the former.
- rch 16y ago
  Being able to recognize the innate potential of others by indirect means is itself a talent.
- rch 16y ago
  and, mate... "We have to interview so-and-so. I know him from Hacker News and he's clearly smart." -- http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pg http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pg -- http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html?s2011 http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html?s2011

pasbesoin 16y ago

A small thought/question: How do "we own all your IP" employment agreements influence and affect the power/mobility of such people? I'm not arguing that they are a factor. Just asking -- in part, as a thought exercise.

caseysoftware 16y ago

"The exception is somebody who is excellent, but stuck inside one company and not producing any publicly-available code. If she isn't actively promoting herself, it's possible nobody will ever notice her talent." Their boss will.. and their coworkers (above and below) will. There have been a number of times that I've been asked for a recommendation and referred someone that was a past supervisor, team lead, etc.

moomba 16y ago

There are some real smart people that don't have business savvy or street smarts. Its easy to get locked into a big dumb corporation that doesn't recognize talent. You could spend a long time in a place like that and not realize your potential. After all, most kids still go through college and work at "safe" jobs.

dpritchett 16y ago
There's an inherent information asymmetry in the job market too. Think of great coders who grow up in the middle of nowhere and get a job in the nearest city. They don't know what the vets at their company in Birmingham, AL are making. All they know is that the coders on HN all say "at least $100k for a dev in the bay area". You need to do a lot of footwork and networking to build an accurate picture of the employment market in a region.

bootload 16y ago

"... other people will notice how good they are, and actively try to get them into appropriate jobs. ..." Do you mean, "other people who work with them" or "other people who notice them"? I ask this because how do you tell if someone is a great hacker unless you work with them?