4 ms·

Not having any real medical knowledge, just as a logical speculation, there is always the possibilitly, that at the point, where people get put on the ventilato

by _ph_ 7y ago

Not having any real medical knowledge, just as a logical speculation, there is always the possibilitly, that at the point, where people get put on the ventilators, the infection has come to a point where the survivability is extremely low.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
That's generally true of ventilator usage. It thus fails to account for the abnormally high death rate of people with Coronavirus put on ventilators as compared to statistical norms for ventilator usage generally.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  I think we can conclude only one thing from the number: by the time people are put on ventilators, their survival chance is very low. This certainly means: more ventilators won't save many people - but it may well be, that if 80% of the ventilated patients die, they saved 20% of the patients. That would assume, that the patients had died, if they had not been ventilated. Which of course depends, at which point in the development doctors put patients onto ventilation.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I posted a link in my original comment to a source indicating that's not what doctors are concluding. It's also not what I'm concluding. While I'm not a doctor, my life literally depends upon me having a fairly substantial amount of knowledge about things like my lung function. In contrast, you opened with saying you don't have much medical knowledge, this just seems logical to you. I will suggest you do more reading. Your logic doesn't really hold up in this case.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      I found the link you are probably referring to, but the article doesn't give any clear conclusion, other that it is known, that ventilation is a very harmful procedure. I would assume, for that reason, doctors wouldn't use ventilators until there is no other option to keep people breathing. Do you have a source for ventilators being used much earlier? If so, than this is certainly something which should be reconsidered. Is there any other treatment than ventilation, once the oxygene level in the blood drops beyond a certain level?
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I feel I've already covered these points. To recap: Some doctors are currently making a concerted effort to intentionally delay or avoid use of ventilators because they are concerned about the alarmingly high death rate associated with them. On the face of it, this implicitly admits that doctors haven't heretofore been exhausting all other treatment modalities before ordering use of a ventilator. I don't know how to answer your last question. I've talked extensively about my firsthand experience with using alternative treatment modalities with my life threatening lung issues, but I'm not a doctor and I don't really have the background to assert anything more than I've already covered, which, as usual, is being dismissed by some commenters as anecdata. Since I've already qualified it up front as "my firsthand personal experience," it seems entirely pointless to belabor any points about my opinions. If the opinions of some random internet stranger (aka me) don't satisfy you and the opinions of medical professionals in the source I posted don't either, I think you probably need to do some digging to come up with the sorts of info that interest you.

by _ph_ 7y ago

DoreenMichele 7y ago

That's generally true of ventilator usage. It thus fails to account for the abnormally high death rate of people with Coronavirus put on ventilators as compared to statistical norms for ventilator usage generally.

_ph_ 7y ago
I think we can conclude only one thing from the number: by the time people are put on ventilators, their survival chance is very low. This certainly means: more ventilators won't save many people - but it may well be, that if 80% of the ventilated patients die, they saved 20% of the patients. That would assume, that the patients had died, if they had not been ventilated. Which of course depends, at which point in the development doctors put patients onto ventilation.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I posted a link in my original comment to a source indicating that's not what doctors are concluding. It's also not what I'm concluding. While I'm not a doctor, my life literally depends upon me having a fairly substantial amount of knowledge about things like my lung function. In contrast, you opened with saying you don't have much medical knowledge, this just seems logical to you. I will suggest you do more reading. Your logic doesn't really hold up in this case.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    I found the link you are probably referring to, but the article doesn't give any clear conclusion, other that it is known, that ventilation is a very harmful procedure. I would assume, for that reason, doctors wouldn't use ventilators until there is no other option to keep people breathing. Do you have a source for ventilators being used much earlier? If so, than this is certainly something which should be reconsidered. Is there any other treatment than ventilation, once the oxygene level in the blood drops beyond a certain level?
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      I feel I've already covered these points. To recap: Some doctors are currently making a concerted effort to intentionally delay or avoid use of ventilators because they are concerned about the alarmingly high death rate associated with them. On the face of it, this implicitly admits that doctors haven't heretofore been exhausting all other treatment modalities before ordering use of a ventilator. I don't know how to answer your last question. I've talked extensively about my firsthand experience with using alternative treatment modalities with my life threatening lung issues, but I'm not a doctor and I don't really have the background to assert anything more than I've already covered, which, as usual, is being dismissed by some commenters as anecdata. Since I've already qualified it up front as "my firsthand personal experience," it seems entirely pointless to belabor any points about my opinions. If the opinions of some random internet stranger (aka me) don't satisfy you and the opinions of medical professionals in the source I posted don't either, I think you probably need to do some digging to come up with the sorts of info that interest you.