4 ms·

I'm alarmed at the glee with which Americans are giving up their constitutional rights and calling for more restrictions. America is not Asia, or Europe. This i

I'm alarmed at the glee with which Americans are giving up their constitutional rights and calling for more restrictions. America is not Asia, or Europe. This is a frontier nation, and we must keep it that way. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

guscost 6y ago
Spot on. I’m happy that so many folks are using the First Amendment to demand liberty in (often) civil discussions online, but to quote the immortal Dave Chappelle, “The Second Amendment is just in case the First one doesn’t work out.”
adrianN 6y ago
Which frontier would that be?
- lnreddy 6y ago
  Forgive my slight exaggeration for dramatic effect. But the point still stands.
howlin 6y ago
There are still frontier nations out there. Russia, Greenland, Outback Australia, the Canadian Territories. Perhaps Alaska. But the continental US is a developed land with dense cities. Your idea of what your liberties should be don't justify the drastic externalities you will inflict on your neighbors.
- guscost 6y ago
  > Your idea of what your liberties should be don't justify the drastic externalities you will inflict on your neighbors. With respect, that’s up to my neighbors, not the government.
- lnreddy 6y ago
  You'd be surprised. There's vast land west of the Mississippi that is still rugged and relatively undeveloped. I speak more in terms of the frontier mindset, but I digress.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  There's damn few places in the US with population density akin to Europe or Asia. The last big city I lived in, Fresno, is low density sprawl. The culture there is like half a million cowboys decided to move to the suburbs. They put on their cowboy crap to go to concerts at their major park. It's bizarre. We also generally have shit public transit. You cannot tell me that lock down is the only possible way to handle the pandemic in the incredibly low average population density of most of the US. Give me a break.
  - yongjik 6y ago
    Fresno, CA has population density of 1,761.69/km2. That's not too far from Daegu, South Korea (2,818/km2), where 6,807 were infected so far and 142 people died. They stopped it only through really aggressive testing and contact tracing. I'm so tired of this America-is-so-special argument. Freaking Mississippi has 2,260 patients now. Now what?
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      Mississippi is one of the poorest places in the US. It's got problems akin to a third world country. Now what? I'm sure you think that's a rhetorical question, but today is your unlucky day because I've spent the last 19 years getting healthier while the world says it cannot be done and generally acts like a butt to me. Now we actively create a world where public bathrooms aren't health hazards to use at all. I propose we get Walmart to write that handbook. Their bathrooms are generally pretty damn good and there are lots of establishments where I don't want to set foot in their restroom. Now we create a world where it's normal to call ahead or order online and pick-up instead of dining out or milling about waiting for our order because we all just showed up and then ordered. Now we create cultural norms where you don't blow your nose at the god-damned conference table or restaurant table, jebus. Now we create cultural norms like bowing instead of shaking hands. Now we create architectural standards like using copper for stair rails because it's antimicrobial. Making people a prisoner of their homes while our economy gets flushed down the toilet isn't our only option. That assumption is ignorant on the face of it. There's always more than one way to solve a problem.
loftyal 6y ago
Do you realise most of Europe has the same freedoms as America, including constitutional rights? America isn't the only place with freedom.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  Most of Europe has constitutional rights... Unless those rights are icky. For instance, freedom of speech - unless it disparages a religion, or denies the Holocaust, or...
  - watwut 6y ago
    Europe still incarcerated significantly less people. And you won't get arrested for loitering which in practical terms is freedom of movement - current situation excepted.
rubans 6y ago
What rights do Americans have, which you don't think Europeans have exactly? You're implying America is more free than other parts of the world, but it just isn't.
- guscost 6y ago
  It’s not so much that we enjoy more rights, it’s that the government is powerless to take away those rights which we prefer to keep. You can believe whatever you want, but that’s very true here, and not at all true in many other places.
watwut 6y ago
Funny thing it, the Benjamin Franklin quote in the context did not meant what you think it meant at all. It was said when a family was trying to one-time-payment their way out of taxation and was pro-goverment got to rule.

guscost 6y ago

Spot on. I’m happy that so many folks are using the First Amendment to demand liberty in (often) civil discussions online, but to quote the immortal Dave Chappelle, “The Second Amendment is just in case the First one doesn’t work out.”

adrianN 6y ago

Which frontier would that be?

lnreddy 6y ago
Forgive my slight exaggeration for dramatic effect. But the point still stands.

howlin 6y ago

There are still frontier nations out there. Russia, Greenland, Outback Australia, the Canadian Territories. Perhaps Alaska. But the continental US is a developed land with dense cities. Your idea of what your liberties should be don't justify the drastic externalities you will inflict on your neighbors.

guscost 6y ago
> Your idea of what your liberties should be don't justify the drastic externalities you will inflict on your neighbors. With respect, that’s up to my neighbors, not the government.
lnreddy 6y ago
You'd be surprised. There's vast land west of the Mississippi that is still rugged and relatively undeveloped. I speak more in terms of the frontier mindset, but I digress.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
There's damn few places in the US with population density akin to Europe or Asia. The last big city I lived in, Fresno, is low density sprawl. The culture there is like half a million cowboys decided to move to the suburbs. They put on their cowboy crap to go to concerts at their major park. It's bizarre. We also generally have shit public transit. You cannot tell me that lock down is the only possible way to handle the pandemic in the incredibly low average population density of most of the US. Give me a break.
- yongjik 6y ago
  Fresno, CA has population density of 1,761.69/km2. That's not too far from Daegu, South Korea (2,818/km2), where 6,807 were infected so far and 142 people died. They stopped it only through really aggressive testing and contact tracing. I'm so tired of this America-is-so-special argument. Freaking Mississippi has 2,260 patients now. Now what?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Mississippi is one of the poorest places in the US. It's got problems akin to a third world country. Now what? I'm sure you think that's a rhetorical question, but today is your unlucky day because I've spent the last 19 years getting healthier while the world says it cannot be done and generally acts like a butt to me. Now we actively create a world where public bathrooms aren't health hazards to use at all. I propose we get Walmart to write that handbook. Their bathrooms are generally pretty damn good and there are lots of establishments where I don't want to set foot in their restroom. Now we create a world where it's normal to call ahead or order online and pick-up instead of dining out or milling about waiting for our order because we all just showed up and then ordered. Now we create cultural norms where you don't blow your nose at the god-damned conference table or restaurant table, jebus. Now we create cultural norms like bowing instead of shaking hands. Now we create architectural standards like using copper for stair rails because it's antimicrobial. Making people a prisoner of their homes while our economy gets flushed down the toilet isn't our only option. That assumption is ignorant on the face of it. There's always more than one way to solve a problem.

loftyal 6y ago

Do you realise most of Europe has the same freedoms as America, including constitutional rights? America isn't the only place with freedom.

DuskStar 6y ago
Most of Europe has constitutional rights... Unless those rights are icky. For instance, freedom of speech - unless it disparages a religion, or denies the Holocaust, or...
- watwut 6y ago
  Europe still incarcerated significantly less people. And you won't get arrested for loitering which in practical terms is freedom of movement - current situation excepted.

rubans 6y ago

What rights do Americans have, which you don't think Europeans have exactly? You're implying America is more free than other parts of the world, but it just isn't.

guscost 6y ago
It’s not so much that we enjoy more rights, it’s that the government is powerless to take away those rights which we prefer to keep. You can believe whatever you want, but that’s very true here, and not at all true in many other places.

watwut 6y ago

Funny thing it, the Benjamin Franklin quote in the context did not meant what you think it meant at all. It was said when a family was trying to one-time-payment their way out of taxation and was pro-goverment got to rule.