4 ms·

The new coronavirus appears to take a greater toll on men than on women

29 points by _bxg1 7y ago

econcon 7y ago
So it's killing men at twice the rate of women. Wonder if it's because women have been selected for better immune system as their body has to also protect the offspring and men's system only has to protect himself. Maybe immune response of a pregnant woman is same as immune response of a man? A lot of my friends were increasing their testosterone to 1000ng/dL through exogenous hormones, so some did develop minor heart issues. I am also on Nanandrolene for very long now but I don't have any issue. No idea what effect it will have on Coronavirus.
- DeathArrow 7y ago
  I've read that much of the immune system it's encoded in X chromosome and women have 2 X chromosomes.
DeathArrow 7y ago
So biology employs discrimination.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  Makes sense to me, biology doesn’t follow social mores.
DeathArrow 7y ago
How does it affect non-binary genders?
carlmr 7y ago
I'm not sure why age isn't mentioned here. I think the average age in Italy was something around 80. Men usually have shorter expected life spans, so this might confound the issue.
- toyg 7y ago
  In UK the split of deaths is 2/1/1/1 between over75/65/55/45 - all other demos account for barely 1.5% at the moment. So yeah, age is a big factor. The problem is that age affects triaging procedures too: in situations of care-scarcity, younger folks and women are more likely to be prioritised for treatment. So it’s hard to determine whether the distribution is entirely due to the virus or skewed by our response.
arcticbull 7y ago
I learned today that this is true of most viruses. The flu appears 50-50 but women tend to look after infected men, and so are exposed disproportionately.
- Legogris 7y ago
  Shouldn't that yield the inverse effect?
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    No, the 50-50 is including that behaviour. So men are infected easier, but women are more exposed.
    - Legogris 7y ago
      Ah, that makes sense; I read GPs phrase the other way.
jdc 7y ago
Does anyone know if this this is generally the case with influenza also?
- arcticbull 7y ago
  The data is closer to 50-50 there although my understanding is that women overwhelmingly look after the sick men and are disproportionately exposed so those numbers aren’t directly comparable.
huffmsa 7y ago
I read (unqualified) ACE2 expression is X chromosome linked, and that men's single X means they've only got 1 type of ACE2 receptors => single point of failure. Men(particularly in Italy) are more likely to smoke and work jobs where there encounter lung irritants (pollution, dust, other chemicals), meaning they're starting with more damaged lungs than equivalent women.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  A different bit of research [1] says this isn't necessarily a respiratory illness, but one that attacks the red blood cells, blocking their ability to transfer O2, and causing free iron to spike in the body. The body ultimately binds into storage in the alveoli, but at too high of a rate, causing that glassy lung imaging. Women typically have lower blood iron levels than men, so once again are starting from a "safer" level. [1] https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173 https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surf...
anon_coward_1 7y ago
So men have perhaps twice the rate of infection and death than women. One thing I can't understand is why there has been no government advice about this. I would have thought it would be sensible advice that if a man and a women are in isolation together, the woman should go shopping rather than the man, especially as usually the man is older in a marriage. I would have thought that this simple change could save many many lives, so I wonder why no government has suggested it?
- aaron695 7y ago
  Because he will just get it off her. Neither should go shopping. (If they have to go shopping then you'd look at who follows protocols better, women seem better at washing hands but may know more people shopping but don't shake hands)
  - anon_coward_1 7y ago
    Unfortunately my elderly parents (UK) are in a position where they can't get shopping delivered, there are no delivery slots at any of the supermarkets. I'm looking at sending food over in a taxi but it's really expensive! While it's likely he will catch it from her, it's by no means a guarantee.
    - Kinrany 7y ago
      > While it's likely he will catch it from her, it's by no means a guarantee. Unless they also isolate from each other, common sense suggests it is.
_bxg1 7y ago
I have to wonder if they controlled at all for heart disease. That seems like it would be a strong bridging factor.

29 points by _bxg1 7y ago

So it's killing men at twice the rate of women. Wonder if it's because women have been selected for better immune system as their body has to also protect the offspring and men's system only has to protect himself. Maybe immune response of a pregnant woman is same as immune response of a man? A lot of my friends were increasing their testosterone to 1000ng/dL through exogenous hormones, so some did develop minor heart issues. I am also on Nanandrolene for very long now but I don't have any issue. No idea what effect it will have on Coronavirus.

DeathArrow 7y ago
I've read that much of the immune system it's encoded in X chromosome and women have 2 X chromosomes.

DeathArrow 7y ago

So biology employs discrimination.

arcticbull 7y ago
Makes sense to me, biology doesn’t follow social mores.

DeathArrow 7y ago

How does it affect non-binary genders?

carlmr 7y ago

I'm not sure why age isn't mentioned here. I think the average age in Italy was something around 80. Men usually have shorter expected life spans, so this might confound the issue.

toyg 7y ago
In UK the split of deaths is 2/1/1/1 between over75/65/55/45 - all other demos account for barely 1.5% at the moment. So yeah, age is a big factor. The problem is that age affects triaging procedures too: in situations of care-scarcity, younger folks and women are more likely to be prioritised for treatment. So it’s hard to determine whether the distribution is entirely due to the virus or skewed by our response.

arcticbull 7y ago

I learned today that this is true of most viruses. The flu appears 50-50 but women tend to look after infected men, and so are exposed disproportionately.

Legogris 7y ago
Shouldn't that yield the inverse effect?
- NicoJuicy 7y ago
  No, the 50-50 is including that behaviour. So men are infected easier, but women are more exposed.
  - Legogris 7y ago
    Ah, that makes sense; I read GPs phrase the other way.

jdc 7y ago

Does anyone know if this this is generally the case with influenza also?

arcticbull 7y ago
The data is closer to 50-50 there although my understanding is that women overwhelmingly look after the sick men and are disproportionately exposed so those numbers aren’t directly comparable.

huffmsa 7y ago

I read (unqualified) ACE2 expression is X chromosome linked, and that men's single X means they've only got 1 type of ACE2 receptors => single point of failure. Men(particularly in Italy) are more likely to smoke and work jobs where there encounter lung irritants (pollution, dust, other chemicals), meaning they're starting with more damaged lungs than equivalent women.

huffmsa 7y ago
A different bit of research [1] says this isn't necessarily a respiratory illness, but one that attacks the red blood cells, blocking their ability to transfer O2, and causing free iron to spike in the body. The body ultimately binds into storage in the alveoli, but at too high of a rate, causing that glassy lung imaging. Women typically have lower blood iron levels than men, so once again are starting from a "safer" level. [1] https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173 https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surf...

anon_coward_1 7y ago

So men have perhaps twice the rate of infection and death than women. One thing I can't understand is why there has been no government advice about this. I would have thought it would be sensible advice that if a man and a women are in isolation together, the woman should go shopping rather than the man, especially as usually the man is older in a marriage. I would have thought that this simple change could save many many lives, so I wonder why no government has suggested it?

aaron695 7y ago
Because he will just get it off her. Neither should go shopping. (If they have to go shopping then you'd look at who follows protocols better, women seem better at washing hands but may know more people shopping but don't shake hands)
- anon_coward_1 7y ago
  Unfortunately my elderly parents (UK) are in a position where they can't get shopping delivered, there are no delivery slots at any of the supermarkets. I'm looking at sending food over in a taxi but it's really expensive! While it's likely he will catch it from her, it's by no means a guarantee.
  - Kinrany 7y ago
    > While it's likely he will catch it from her, it's by no means a guarantee. Unless they also isolate from each other, common sense suggests it is.

_bxg1 7y ago

I have to wonder if they controlled at all for heart disease. That seems like it would be a strong bridging factor.