5 ms·

For sake of argument: If U-3 is the one that everyone pays attention to does it really matter that much if the others exist?

vkou 7y ago
To respond to your argument - it may not matter that the others exist, but allegations that the books have been cooked are unfounded. The books are there, plain as day, and there are no shenanigans with them.
- adamsea 7y ago
  There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. Presenting merely data or information is insufficient. The responsibility is to present useful, contextualized information to the public - knowledge.
  - vkou 7y ago
    I'd like my government census/statistics agencies to present the raw data, instead of editorializing it. There's plenty of pundits and elected officials who are quite happy to provide the latter service.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      This is may be the first time I’ve seen downvotes for a proponent of transparency in government. Government provides a nice website (BLS) with explanations and empowers its citizens to analyze it, and the government is still doing something wrong.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    Which is why there are 6 variations of “unemployment”. BLS publishes them regularly and has definitions available. Ignore 5 of the 6 at your own peril - they’re all there for the public to consume as they see fit.
- coldtea 7y ago
  There's no better way to hide the truth and cook books than with extra irrelevant information passed as the most important one...
greglindahl 7y ago
I see articles in the news media about data other than U-3, so I don't think your question is well-formed.
CydeWeys 7y ago
Economists definitely pay attention to more than U-3, and they're the ones coming up with the stimuluses and other proposals. Not everyone needs to be aware of TCP to be able to, e.g., use the Internet on their smart phone. Economists use a wide variety of different metrics to measure employment and set economic policies accordingly. Wage matters a lot too, not just unemployed/partially employed/fully employed.
perl4ever 7y ago
I think this sort of discussion also happens with the CPI. There are a whole bunch of CPI indexes, with energy, without energy, etc. And then people make a big deal about the shortcomings of one of them that they chose to focus on. If you say, well, the CPI that includes everything, includes everything, then the response can easily be what you are saying about U-3. I tend not to blame authorities for ignorance, because it seems to me ignorance is not passive; it evolves to extreme levels of resistance.
alistairSH 7y ago
Yes. U-3 is a useful generalization. But, it’s possible it’s usefulness has waned, as it fails to count two subsets of working-age population that have grown in recent decades - those that are unable to find work and leave the workforce completely and those that are underemployed. U-6 includes these two groups. But, if U-6 was the commonly reported figure, we’d get cries of cooked books from some other groups, because why should we count people who have given up on working, or why should we care if somebody is underemployed (they have a job and should be happy). In the age of fake news and too much information it’s a no win.

vkou 7y ago

To respond to your argument - it may not matter that the others exist, but allegations that the books have been cooked are unfounded. The books are there, plain as day, and there are no shenanigans with them.

adamsea 7y ago
There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. Presenting merely data or information is insufficient. The responsibility is to present useful, contextualized information to the public - knowledge.
- vkou 7y ago
  I'd like my government census/statistics agencies to present the raw data, instead of editorializing it. There's plenty of pundits and elected officials who are quite happy to provide the latter service.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    This is may be the first time I’ve seen downvotes for a proponent of transparency in government. Government provides a nice website (BLS) with explanations and empowers its citizens to analyze it, and the government is still doing something wrong.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Which is why there are 6 variations of “unemployment”. BLS publishes them regularly and has definitions available. Ignore 5 of the 6 at your own peril - they’re all there for the public to consume as they see fit.
coldtea 7y ago
There's no better way to hide the truth and cook books than with extra irrelevant information passed as the most important one...

greglindahl 7y ago

I see articles in the news media about data other than U-3, so I don't think your question is well-formed.

CydeWeys 7y ago

Economists definitely pay attention to more than U-3, and they're the ones coming up with the stimuluses and other proposals. Not everyone needs to be aware of TCP to be able to, e.g., use the Internet on their smart phone. Economists use a wide variety of different metrics to measure employment and set economic policies accordingly. Wage matters a lot too, not just unemployed/partially employed/fully employed.

perl4ever 7y ago

I think this sort of discussion also happens with the CPI. There are a whole bunch of CPI indexes, with energy, without energy, etc. And then people make a big deal about the shortcomings of one of them that they chose to focus on. If you say, well, the CPI that includes everything, includes everything, then the response can easily be what you are saying about U-3. I tend not to blame authorities for ignorance, because it seems to me ignorance is not passive; it evolves to extreme levels of resistance.

alistairSH 7y ago

Yes. U-3 is a useful generalization. But, it’s possible it’s usefulness has waned, as it fails to count two subsets of working-age population that have grown in recent decades - those that are unable to find work and leave the workforce completely and those that are underemployed. U-6 includes these two groups. But, if U-6 was the commonly reported figure, we’d get cries of cooked books from some other groups, because why should we count people who have given up on working, or why should we care if somebody is underemployed (they have a job and should be happy). In the age of fake news and too much information it’s a no win.