4 ms·

A large number of artifacts held in Western museums and libraries are known to have been appropriated over the ages through conquest and colonialism. The lootin

A large number of artifacts held in Western museums and libraries are known to have been appropriated over the ages through conquest and colonialism. The looting of African objects anthropologists, curators and private collectors took place in war as well as in peaceful times. It was once justified as an act of benevolence; as saving dying knowledge. So what now that we know the truth?

Larrikin 7y ago
It should be left up to the nations that the loot was plundered from. After going to the Cairo museum it's a painful experience going to an Egyptian exhibit in the US. But going with people who have never been to Egypt or even the African continent there is definitely a real appreciation of what is in the American Museum. The best of the best should go back to Africa but there should be thought put into things left behind to inspire people to goto the source.
- dvdbloc 7y ago
  For many people it may be completely unobtainable that they travel all over Africa to see the best. For that reason, is it best that these items frequently travel the world for all to appreciate? Or is that bad as well?
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  Did you go to the Cairo museum before or after the most recent looting? https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/8/130823-museum-mallawi-egypt-looting-artifacts-archaeology-science-antiquities/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/8/130823-museum... I want culturally significant archaeological artifacts preserved wherever the most stable environment is. I do not care which country it happens to be, as long the stability and budget for conservation is there. I think the urge some people feel to return items to whichever country currently occupies the same geographic origin that these artifacts come from is well-meaning, but fundamentally misguided. Preservation for future generations should be the guiding principle. If that means Object X resides somewhere else, then that is the best choice, period.
  - Larrikin 7y ago
    Yes I went before the recent bad times in Egypt. I think your opinion is the wrong path to go down, because if we start putting arbitrary rules of stability on countries they will never be returned. Egypt was stable for decades. Artifacts were plundered by the Nazis during WWII just a few decades ago and a priceless Van Gogh was stolen just a few weeks ago, so is Europe no longer considered a safe space for those cultural artifacts in Europe? Museums in Africa should be setup and educated with the profits gained from stealing their heritage and they should be returned.
    - Baeocystin 7y ago
      Nazi artifact plundering and destruction was a huge loss for everyone. (Same with the firebombing of Dresden, for that matter.) Thankfully, the West also set up the MFAA post-war, and recovered a great deal of material. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monuments,_Fine_Arts,_and_Archives_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monuments,_Fine_Arts,_and_Arch... The theft of a single painting is not the same as looters running rampant with destruction. Nowhere is 100% safe. That is the entire problem with long-term conservation! The best we can do is go for maximum political stability. When I younger, I saw first-hand exactly how much mainland China lost during the Cultural Revolution. Destruction of anything old was the (literal) rule of the day. Again, it was a loss to the history of humanity. What I want to avoid is events like this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-ancient-manuscripts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-... On a long enough time scale, they become exceedingly common. The one surity of things is that if something is valued by one group, someone else will want to destroy it. The best we can do is ensure that these artefacts are in the most stable locations possible. Over time the particulars will undoubtedly change. But the base answer is the same.
- toohotatopic 7y ago
  How do you make sure that artifacts are not destroyed once they return like in [1-3]? With 3D printing, I don't think there is an argument left for keeping artifacts, once the security is provided. That said, the current cultures in many places have conquered and destroyed the original culture that created those artifacts (including the West). In a sense, it's loot for everybody. So why is it wrong to loot some looter's loot? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/16/tutankhamun-gold-mask-egypt-beard-repair https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/16/tutankhamun-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan [3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/revealed-the-real-story-behind-the-great-iraq-museum-thefts-515067.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/reveale...
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  > It should be left up to the nations that the loot was plundered from What if the nation it was last plundered from in turn took it from someone else even further back in history?

Larrikin 7y ago

It should be left up to the nations that the loot was plundered from. After going to the Cairo museum it's a painful experience going to an Egyptian exhibit in the US. But going with people who have never been to Egypt or even the African continent there is definitely a real appreciation of what is in the American Museum. The best of the best should go back to Africa but there should be thought put into things left behind to inspire people to goto the source.

dvdbloc 7y ago
For many people it may be completely unobtainable that they travel all over Africa to see the best. For that reason, is it best that these items frequently travel the world for all to appreciate? Or is that bad as well?
Baeocystin 7y ago
Did you go to the Cairo museum before or after the most recent looting? https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/8/130823-museum-mallawi-egypt-looting-artifacts-archaeology-science-antiquities/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/8/130823-museum... I want culturally significant archaeological artifacts preserved wherever the most stable environment is. I do not care which country it happens to be, as long the stability and budget for conservation is there. I think the urge some people feel to return items to whichever country currently occupies the same geographic origin that these artifacts come from is well-meaning, but fundamentally misguided. Preservation for future generations should be the guiding principle. If that means Object X resides somewhere else, then that is the best choice, period.
- Larrikin 7y ago
  Yes I went before the recent bad times in Egypt. I think your opinion is the wrong path to go down, because if we start putting arbitrary rules of stability on countries they will never be returned. Egypt was stable for decades. Artifacts were plundered by the Nazis during WWII just a few decades ago and a priceless Van Gogh was stolen just a few weeks ago, so is Europe no longer considered a safe space for those cultural artifacts in Europe? Museums in Africa should be setup and educated with the profits gained from stealing their heritage and they should be returned.
  - Baeocystin 7y ago
    Nazi artifact plundering and destruction was a huge loss for everyone. (Same with the firebombing of Dresden, for that matter.) Thankfully, the West also set up the MFAA post-war, and recovered a great deal of material. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monuments,_Fine_Arts,_and_Archives_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monuments,_Fine_Arts,_and_Arch... The theft of a single painting is not the same as looters running rampant with destruction. Nowhere is 100% safe. That is the entire problem with long-term conservation! The best we can do is go for maximum political stability. When I younger, I saw first-hand exactly how much mainland China lost during the Cultural Revolution. Destruction of anything old was the (literal) rule of the day. Again, it was a loss to the history of humanity. What I want to avoid is events like this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-ancient-manuscripts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-... On a long enough time scale, they become exceedingly common. The one surity of things is that if something is valued by one group, someone else will want to destroy it. The best we can do is ensure that these artefacts are in the most stable locations possible. Over time the particulars will undoubtedly change. But the base answer is the same.
toohotatopic 7y ago
How do you make sure that artifacts are not destroyed once they return like in [1-3]? With 3D printing, I don't think there is an argument left for keeping artifacts, once the security is provided. That said, the current cultures in many places have conquered and destroyed the original culture that created those artifacts (including the West). In a sense, it's loot for everybody. So why is it wrong to loot some looter's loot? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/16/tutankhamun-gold-mask-egypt-beard-repair https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/16/tutankhamun-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan [3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/revealed-the-real-story-behind-the-great-iraq-museum-thefts-515067.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/reveale...
henrikschroder 7y ago
> It should be left up to the nations that the loot was plundered from What if the nation it was last plundered from in turn took it from someone else even further back in history?