6 ms·

How Hard Could it Be? Joel Spolsky recalls what it was like to work for Bill Gates

104 points by prakash 18y ago

jeroen 18y ago
I thought I recognised that, and indeed it is taken partly from http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html . The original is a bit more detailed.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- Andys 18y ago
  The last couple of paragraphs are new, and are worth reading even if you read the original. Brought a smile to my face.
- midnightmonster 18y ago
  The original is better--the order of the story and the emotion both work better. Probably has to do with trying to dumb down, sound more professional, and remove the swearing for Inc readers. Joel's Inc Magazine columns compared to his blog writing have pretty much convinced me not to subscribe to Inc..
  - mynameishere 18y ago
    Joel's Inc Magazine columns compared to his blog writing Most of his articles have been inferior re-writes, to the point that I'm not sure why nobody at Inc. has caught on. Maybe they don't care, but I'd be pissed.
    - hernan7 18y ago
      Maybe they think Inc and Joel On Software have mostly non-overlapping readerships?
    - jcl 18y ago
      I thought it was funny that they merged the closing "Still." paragraph into the preceding one, changing the meaning -- from hesitant ("Still, I wonder if he could have been talking about me.") to bitter ("He's still talking about those other Excel devs!").
    - simonw 18y ago
      I imagine Inc. has a word limit on articles so they can fit them in the magazine. If so, there's not a lot Joel can do to keep his columns for Inc. as informative as the essays he publishes on his site without any length restriction.
jgrahamc 18y ago
Actually this isn't about what it's like to work for Bill Gates, it's about Joel Spolsky and reflected glory.
- dreish 18y ago
  Yes, but it has one great takeaway quote that isn't self-serving: > Watching nonprogrammers trying to run software companies is like watching someone who doesn't know how to surf trying to surf. Even if he has great advisers standing on the shore telling him what to do, he still falls off the board again and again. The cult of the M.B.A. likes to believe that you can run organizations that do things that you don't understand. But often, you can't.
  - huhtenberg 18y ago
    This is true for any industry and it's a basic common sense for anyone but a recent MBA graduate without any real-world experience. There's nothing particularly great or insightful about this quote.
    - dreish 18y ago
      Not to veer off into politics, but the Bush administration would seem to be an existence proof that at least some part of your statement is incorrect. (Yes, I realize Bush has an MBA.) I've run into this attitude fairly often, and not just among MBAs.
    - neilc 18y ago
      Not really: the practice of installing CEOs without a lot of industry experience is quite common (see Terry Semel). It might be obvious to you, but not to everyone.
      - natrius 18y ago
        Terry Semel had previous experience managing a large media company, which is what Yahoo wanted to become at the time he was hired.
sanj 18y ago
"When i graduated from college, in 1991" Where's copyediting gone to?
- noonespecial 18y ago
  “You ended that sentence with a preposition…Bastard!” -Richard Dean Anderson (as Jack O'Niell)
  - gruseom 18y ago
    I was going to quote one of my favorite lines by Churchill: This is the sort of English up with which I will not put. But I figured why not check the Google first, just in case. First thing I see is an old post from the inestimable Language Log arguing that the quote isn't Churchill's at all: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001715.html http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001715.h... Basically, if you're famous, all the best jokes get attributed to you.
- bprater 18y ago
  Spolsky is one of the best tech essayists alive. If he wants to graduate from college, in 1991, I'd let him.
  - pgebhard 18y ago
    I believe the parent is referring to the lowercase 'i'.
- maw 18y ago
  ", in 1991," is a parenthetical phrase.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
babul 18y ago
To me this highlights that experience over the years and being technically apt and knowledgeable with the burning desire for your company to do well allowed Bill to harness his vast amount of knowledge and experience to 'probe' people. The level of probing would reveal weaknesses very quickly, as no doubt it would begin in the broad sense, then delving deeper, until the nitty-gritty establishes your understanding of the subject matter. In this example, the common understanding and concerns between the two was there due to the development of Excel to include "Visual Basic for Applications", allowing VB programmers to extend the Office Apps. The Date/Time concerns would have been paramount, particularly as concerns about Y2k were also just emerging - the first online debate being in 1996.
wallflower 18y ago
My favorite billg story: I actually heard this originally from my ex-boss when he was telling stories during a lull at his startup. A friend of his worked for MSFT in the 1980s; I was just thrilled that it was googleable as I had the gist of the story but not the detail in my memory. "What are the greatest business lessons Bill has taught you over the years? Very early in my career at Microsoft, around February 1984, we found a data-crashing bug. I wondered if I would get fired over it. I went to Bill with the head of development. I was then the product manager. It was a classic meeting. Bill was on the couch looking down. I explained that we found this bug and that we thought we were going to have to recall the product. He nodded, did his rocking thing and kept looked down. We were both wondering if we would get fired. Bill wasn't saying anything so my anxiety was growing. I explained that we're going to have to recall the product, and that it's going to cost several hundred thousand dollars and be a hit to our reputation. Bill rocks and looks down. We didn't have anything else to say. I thought: Is this when the ax comes? Then Bill looks up and says: "You came in today and lost a few hundred thousand dollars. You come in tomorrow and hope you do better." His expectation wasn't that we weren't going to make mistakes. He wanted to know that we took it seriously and learned from our mistakes. That's very motivating." http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/06/25/raikes-bill-gates-tech-cz_vb_0625techraikes.html http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/06/25/raikes-bill-gate...
- bct 18y ago
  That sounds suspiciously similar to this story: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184257 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184257
edw519 18y ago
So this is supposed to be an example of good management? Looks more like an example of why Microsoft succeeded in spite of its management. I guess when you're milking a monopolistic cash cow with crappy products, you really don't need good management. Think about it. The CEO comes into a meeting with 6 levels of management and proceeds to treat his people like children by acting like a child himself and "teaching them a lesson". I wonder what Mike Conte, Chris Graham, Pete Higgins, and Mike Maples were thinking during this charade. With 6 levels of management, you'd think that the CEO would focus of the big picture, set the course, and trust his people to do their jobs. Perhaps the best evidence that Bill Gates was too busy bullying and micromanaging was the book he wrote 3 years after this meeting, "The Road Ahead," which never even mentioned the word "internet". Imagine, the CEO of a multi-billion dollar technology company who didn't see the internet in 1994. There are stories of him being upset with having to write that book because it made him take his eye off the ball. I always wondered what ball he was talking about. Thanks to Joel, now we know.
- chrisl99 18y ago
  I have a copy of the first edition of The Road Ahead. Here is the index entry for Internet: Internet, 3-4, 91-100, 91 activities on, 93-97 addresses on, 94 cost of use of, 97-99, 125 e-mail on, 96-97, 124-25 expectations for, 125 foundation of, 97 growth and evolution of, 91, 95-96 and information highway, 3-4, 89, 95, 100, 230, 246 and publication, 95, 123-25 real-time content on, 99 regulation of, 161-63, 204 revenue from, 125 and security, 95, 96, 145 software on, 100 and standards, 96 and telephone system, 99 and Windows, 64 and WWW, 94, 95, 193, 201
  - edw519 18y ago
    What was I thinking? I obviously read something that was wrong. Looking for my source... [EDIT: I give up. I'm not looking anymore. I thought it may have been "Hard Drive" but it's not. So I either read something that was wrong or (more likely) I misinterpreted it. But I stand by my claim that Joel's meeting is an excellent example of mismanagement. If Bill Gates wasn't so busy maintaining an atmosphere of bullying and "see how smart I am" and instead was a real visionary, would there even be a Yahoo or Google today?]
augustus 18y ago
I wonder if Bill knew details of windows as much as about Excel. We'll never know because people who write kernels can't write as well as Spolsky.
okeumeni 18y ago
This article makes me have more respect for Bill Gates. I use to dream working for him since high school. Great stuff!!!
ctingom 18y ago
In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone. - Bill Gates
ctingom 18y ago
"We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving it down the throats of our users." -- Paul Maritz, Microsoft group vice president

104 points by prakash 18y ago

I thought I recognised that, and indeed it is taken partly from http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html . The original is a bit more detailed.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
Andys 18y ago
The last couple of paragraphs are new, and are worth reading even if you read the original. Brought a smile to my face.
midnightmonster 18y ago
The original is better--the order of the story and the emotion both work better. Probably has to do with trying to dumb down, sound more professional, and remove the swearing for Inc readers. Joel's Inc Magazine columns compared to his blog writing have pretty much convinced me not to subscribe to Inc..
- mynameishere 18y ago
  Joel's Inc Magazine columns compared to his blog writing Most of his articles have been inferior re-writes, to the point that I'm not sure why nobody at Inc. has caught on. Maybe they don't care, but I'd be pissed.
  - hernan7 18y ago
    Maybe they think Inc and Joel On Software have mostly non-overlapping readerships?
  - jcl 18y ago
    I thought it was funny that they merged the closing "Still." paragraph into the preceding one, changing the meaning -- from hesitant ("Still, I wonder if he could have been talking about me.") to bitter ("He's still talking about those other Excel devs!").
  - simonw 18y ago
    I imagine Inc. has a word limit on articles so they can fit them in the magazine. If so, there's not a lot Joel can do to keep his columns for Inc. as informative as the essays he publishes on his site without any length restriction.

jgrahamc 18y ago

Actually this isn't about what it's like to work for Bill Gates, it's about Joel Spolsky and reflected glory.

dreish 18y ago
Yes, but it has one great takeaway quote that isn't self-serving: > Watching nonprogrammers trying to run software companies is like watching someone who doesn't know how to surf trying to surf. Even if he has great advisers standing on the shore telling him what to do, he still falls off the board again and again. The cult of the M.B.A. likes to believe that you can run organizations that do things that you don't understand. But often, you can't.
- huhtenberg 18y ago
  This is true for any industry and it's a basic common sense for anyone but a recent MBA graduate without any real-world experience. There's nothing particularly great or insightful about this quote.
  - dreish 18y ago
    Not to veer off into politics, but the Bush administration would seem to be an existence proof that at least some part of your statement is incorrect. (Yes, I realize Bush has an MBA.) I've run into this attitude fairly often, and not just among MBAs.
  - neilc 18y ago
    Not really: the practice of installing CEOs without a lot of industry experience is quite common (see Terry Semel). It might be obvious to you, but not to everyone.
    - natrius 18y ago
      Terry Semel had previous experience managing a large media company, which is what Yahoo wanted to become at the time he was hired.

sanj 18y ago

"When i graduated from college, in 1991" Where's copyediting gone to?

noonespecial 18y ago
“You ended that sentence with a preposition…Bastard!” -Richard Dean Anderson (as Jack O'Niell)
- gruseom 18y ago
  I was going to quote one of my favorite lines by Churchill: This is the sort of English up with which I will not put. But I figured why not check the Google first, just in case. First thing I see is an old post from the inestimable Language Log arguing that the quote isn't Churchill's at all: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001715.html http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001715.h... Basically, if you're famous, all the best jokes get attributed to you.
bprater 18y ago
Spolsky is one of the best tech essayists alive. If he wants to graduate from college, in 1991, I'd let him.
- pgebhard 18y ago
  I believe the parent is referring to the lowercase 'i'.
maw 18y ago
", in 1991," is a parenthetical phrase.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

babul 18y ago

To me this highlights that experience over the years and being technically apt and knowledgeable with the burning desire for your company to do well allowed Bill to harness his vast amount of knowledge and experience to 'probe' people. The level of probing would reveal weaknesses very quickly, as no doubt it would begin in the broad sense, then delving deeper, until the nitty-gritty establishes your understanding of the subject matter. In this example, the common understanding and concerns between the two was there due to the development of Excel to include "Visual Basic for Applications", allowing VB programmers to extend the Office Apps. The Date/Time concerns would have been paramount, particularly as concerns about Y2k were also just emerging - the first online debate being in 1996.

wallflower 18y ago

My favorite billg story: I actually heard this originally from my ex-boss when he was telling stories during a lull at his startup. A friend of his worked for MSFT in the 1980s; I was just thrilled that it was googleable as I had the gist of the story but not the detail in my memory. "What are the greatest business lessons Bill has taught you over the years? Very early in my career at Microsoft, around February 1984, we found a data-crashing bug. I wondered if I would get fired over it. I went to Bill with the head of development. I was then the product manager. It was a classic meeting. Bill was on the couch looking down. I explained that we found this bug and that we thought we were going to have to recall the product. He nodded, did his rocking thing and kept looked down. We were both wondering if we would get fired. Bill wasn't saying anything so my anxiety was growing. I explained that we're going to have to recall the product, and that it's going to cost several hundred thousand dollars and be a hit to our reputation. Bill rocks and looks down. We didn't have anything else to say. I thought: Is this when the ax comes? Then Bill looks up and says: "You came in today and lost a few hundred thousand dollars. You come in tomorrow and hope you do better." His expectation wasn't that we weren't going to make mistakes. He wanted to know that we took it seriously and learned from our mistakes. That's very motivating." http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/06/25/raikes-bill-gates-tech-cz_vb_0625techraikes.html http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/06/25/raikes-bill-gate...

bct 18y ago
That sounds suspiciously similar to this story: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184257 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184257

edw519 18y ago

So this is supposed to be an example of good management? Looks more like an example of why Microsoft succeeded in spite of its management. I guess when you're milking a monopolistic cash cow with crappy products, you really don't need good management. Think about it. The CEO comes into a meeting with 6 levels of management and proceeds to treat his people like children by acting like a child himself and "teaching them a lesson". I wonder what Mike Conte, Chris Graham, Pete Higgins, and Mike Maples were thinking during this charade. With 6 levels of management, you'd think that the CEO would focus of the big picture, set the course, and trust his people to do their jobs. Perhaps the best evidence that Bill Gates was too busy bullying and micromanaging was the book he wrote 3 years after this meeting, "The Road Ahead," which never even mentioned the word "internet". Imagine, the CEO of a multi-billion dollar technology company who didn't see the internet in 1994. There are stories of him being upset with having to write that book because it made him take his eye off the ball. I always wondered what ball he was talking about. Thanks to Joel, now we know.

chrisl99 18y ago
I have a copy of the first edition of The Road Ahead. Here is the index entry for Internet: Internet, 3-4, 91-100, 91 activities on, 93-97 addresses on, 94 cost of use of, 97-99, 125 e-mail on, 96-97, 124-25 expectations for, 125 foundation of, 97 growth and evolution of, 91, 95-96 and information highway, 3-4, 89, 95, 100, 230, 246 and publication, 95, 123-25 real-time content on, 99 regulation of, 161-63, 204 revenue from, 125 and security, 95, 96, 145 software on, 100 and standards, 96 and telephone system, 99 and Windows, 64 and WWW, 94, 95, 193, 201
- edw519 18y ago
  What was I thinking? I obviously read something that was wrong. Looking for my source... [EDIT: I give up. I'm not looking anymore. I thought it may have been "Hard Drive" but it's not. So I either read something that was wrong or (more likely) I misinterpreted it. But I stand by my claim that Joel's meeting is an excellent example of mismanagement. If Bill Gates wasn't so busy maintaining an atmosphere of bullying and "see how smart I am" and instead was a real visionary, would there even be a Yahoo or Google today?]

augustus 18y ago

I wonder if Bill knew details of windows as much as about Excel. We'll never know because people who write kernels can't write as well as Spolsky.

okeumeni 18y ago

This article makes me have more respect for Bill Gates. I use to dream working for him since high school. Great stuff!!!

ctingom 18y ago

In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone. - Bill Gates

ctingom 18y ago

"We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving it down the throats of our users." -- Paul Maritz, Microsoft group vice president