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Perhaps I'm not hip enough but I'm pretty sure there is nothing more sophisticated than Signal.
by blfr 7y ago
Perhaps I'm not hip enough but I'm pretty sure there is nothing more sophisticated than Signal.
- mikece 7y agoSession -- it just doesn't have as many features. BTW, one of Signal's weaknesses is that you MUST use a phone number with it. If you're savvy you realize this can be a Twilio number you control making your account immune from SIM hijacking. However, unless you override a bunch of defaults Signal is not immune to other attack vectors like attempting to unfurl a URL sent in a message -- which can expose your true IP address -- or generate a thumbnail of a video -- which can launch a malware attack -- which is the method of attack alleged to have been used by Saudi intelligence to hijack Jeff Bezos' phone (via an E2E encrypted WhatsApp message no less). A more sophisticated messenger system would turn off lots of "convenience" features by default and let me pick a random username and NOT make me enter a phone number or email address. People who care about security don't need a way to reset their randomly generated 128 character passwords.
- rsync 7y ago"BTW, one of Signal's weaknesses is that you MUST use a phone number with it. If you're savvy you realize this can be a Twilio number you control making your account immune from SIM hijacking." Does Signal not ever send messages from, or otherwise use, SMS shortcodes ? I ask because no twilio number can receive an SMS shortcode (because no twilio number is classified as a "mobile" number). Genuinely curious.
- phaer 7y agoThe do it once for the initial setup. But iirc, one can also get an automated call for the pin.
- UncleMeat 7y ago> BTW, one of Signal's weaknesses is that you MUST use a phone number with it. This isn't a weakness, it is a tradeoff. You use phone numbers (downside) but the server does not have to store any information about who is talking to who (upside). Other tools reverse this choice and don't use phone numbers but do need to maintain the communication metadata.
- baybal2 7y agoIt's not a tradeoff, it's a weakness by design. All features you mention are 100% doable without a phone number
- nebulous1 7y agoI believe it is both a weakness and a trade-off
- maqp 7y agoSure, and Signal is already working on usernames. Here's the kink: When you have low latency (video) calls, you can't route via Tor. When you can't route via Tor, you leak your IP to the server. When you leak your IP you're not anonymous, and when you're not anonymous, the server having the hash of your phone number isn't adding too much data to them. When the server knows who you are, the app can use your existing contact list to discover contacts. This means unlike e.g. Telegram, Signal server doesn't store your contact list. I e.g. constantly see people whose phone number I've already deleted appear on my Telegram contact list "X joined Telegram". Telegram knows I had the number at some point. This would never happen with Signal.
- mirimir 7y ago> Here's the kink: When you have low latency (video) calls, you can't route via Tor. Sure, but you can use VPNs. Or Orchid, which is a multi-hop VPN that routes through multiple VPN providers. Or you can just use VoIP, which can be done via Tor, as long as you can force TCP mode.
- maqp 7y agoThat system a) has a paytrail, b) involves companies that can be coerced / hacked with relative ease, c) is a paid system and d) is quite a bit for average user to handle. Also, if you're going to stay anonymous, you need something that is extremely hard to misconfigure. I use wireguard on my Android and I've set the VPN to activate automatically, and I only allow connection via VPN, but I'd never imagine any of the apps I'm running are properly anonymized. Also, since you're apparently working for or affiliated with VPN providers[1], you might want to be more transparent about possible vested interests. [1] https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/what-is-a-vpn https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/what-is-a-vpn
- tialaramex 7y agoBeyond the (slightly behind trend) enthusiasm for blockchains Session is the same punt on contact discovery as lots of other systems that went nowhere. This works great for little secret decoder ring cliques but doesn't actually secure real people's day-to-day messages due to lack of discovery - your local butcher and the guy your sister went to college with never find out that you have the same secure messaging app, and so their messages to you aren't secured. In contrast to your disinterest in convenience features, Session does have a bunch of things that presumably its principles felt were non-negotiable but clearly harm security. The "Open Groups" feature for example is basically "Eh, this is hard, we give up" for larger groups (500+ people). No end-to-end encryption and you're given either a moderator tool that doesn't work ("Ban" pseudonymous people who can for zero cost just create a new pseudonym) or one that's onerous ("Invite" everybody manually).
- BrandoElFollito 7y agoFTI's report (1) (the security company doing the forensics analysis) about Bezos' phone "hack" is a joke. Not only they do not show anything but use misleading terms in order to confuse the reader. We do not even know if he was hacked. Right now it is just vague accusations. I do not care about Saudi Arabia, they are a middle-ages, totalitarian and profoundly sick country. What I care about is misinformation. (1) https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6668313-FTI-Report-into-Jeff-Bezos-Phone-Hack.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6668313-FTI-Report-i...
- mikece 7y agoTo be fair, "Signal the App" and "Signal the Protocol" are two different things. If you were talking about the later then your statement is quite possibly correct.
- uoaei 7y agoWhy not Keybase? https://keybase.io/ https://keybase.io/
- QUFB 7y agoThe lack of PFS is a big negative about keybase.
- cristoperb 7y agoYou can set messages to expire in keybase: https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-exploding-messages https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-exploding-messages
- majewsky 7y agoThat looks completely orthogonal to Perfect Forward Secrecy.
- oconnor663 7y agoIt's based on an ephemeral key schedule underneath. Here's the design doc: https://keybase.io/docs/chat/ephemeral https://keybase.io/docs/chat/ephemeral
- brobinson 7y agoI was just looking into keybase, and.... deleted. Thanks for the heads up.
- urxvtcd 7y agoI was under the impression it's the same for Signal. Quick duckduckgo led me here: https://signal.org/blog/asynchronous-security/ https://signal.org/blog/asynchronous-security/ The more you know!
- maqp 7y agoThere's also a targeted attack that allows arbitrary keys to be linked to your keyring to DoS you.
- upofadown 7y agoSignal is all about making good cryptography usable for the general public. If you actually use the "safety numbers" to verify the identity of who you are communicating with then you have real guaranteed end to end encryption. Unfortunately not everyone does that. People that really really need to be sure probably use something super simple like PGP after they take the time to learn how.