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I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things do happen. Lots of good things also happen. Just like all countries, nothing is perfect. I don't need to remind you of all the human rights violations by the US. The point is: you need to have a more nuanced understanding of the CCP than that of a cartoon villain. Here are some facts: all coronavirus patients got free treatment, free stays in isolation hotels, all Wuhan residents got free food delivered to their homes. In contrast to what happened here in Europe, the CCP took a strong stance to save as many of their own citizen as they can instead of worrying about economic impact. You may not believe me. But take a look at these: "I'm sitting home in Wuhan and eating free vegetables and fish govt sent me and you tell me it hurts my human rights???" -- https://twitter.com/ClaireRChen/status/1241971786062770176?s=20 https://twitter.com/ClaireRChen/status/1241971786062770176?s... New Wuhan Doctor Speaks Out From Ground Zero -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyUHz62Uan8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyUHz62Uan8 American and Canadian, living & studying in China, talk about how it is actually like there -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxfSJgQuSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxfSJgQuSI

philliphaydon 7y ago
> I was born in China Did you earn your red scarf?
- FooBarWidget 7y ago
  Yes I did. Not even kidding. You get it when you generally behave like a good student at school. Maybe you associate it with something else (probably Mao mass murdering or w/e) but most Chinese see it as a pretty normal school thing.
  - philliphaydon 7y ago
    Correct, you get it when you show loyalty to ccp.
    - tly_alex 7y ago
      Stereotypes like this is just unbelievable in this days and in HN.
      - dang 7y ago
        I understand the feeling. Unfortunately it's inevitable that stereotypes etc. end up on HN, simply because HN is millions of people. At any moment, some population sample is getting activated by something that appears here and someone will get triggered into commenting. It's important not to generalize from posts like that to the entire community, because if you do it will feel like you're surrounded by enemies, when the opposite is true. I sometimes find it helpful to replace "HN" with "large statistical distribution" in a sentence. It's usually true and makes things less dismaying.
- ubermon 7y ago
  I am quite surprised to see those stereotypes on hacker news . Looking at all the accounts with names like systemxxx and throwawayxxx, I feel conspiracy theory is no joke
  - dang 7y ago
    Unfortunately, this kind of thing makes it on to HN. That's inevitable when a forum has millions of users, anonymity is ok, and the topic is divisive. We do what we can to try to convince people to follow the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and we ban accounts that violate them repeatedly. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20nationalis&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- dang 7y ago
  Slurs like this will get you banned here. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309 also. People have been hounded off this site because of their national origin. I'm sure you'll agree that that's utterly shameful. Unfortunately it's what we end up with when people allow baser instincts to drive their posts. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
philliphaydon 7y ago
> "I'm sitting home in Wuhan and eating free vegetables and fish govt sent me and you tell me it hurts my human rights???" Delivered via rubbish trucks. https://mothership.sg/2020/03/garbage-trucks-wuhan/ https://mothership.sg/2020/03/garbage-trucks-wuhan/ > American and Canadian, living & studying in china, talk about how it is actually like there Actual videos from china https://archive.nothingburger.today/Videos/ https://archive.nothingburger.today/Videos/
antigirl 7y ago
Agree but not the good hero you make them out to be either. Does any other nation have Muslim concentration camps. Invasive tracking? And extreme sensorships measures?
- FooBarWidget 7y ago
  I didn't claim they are heroes. I explicitly said that bad things do happen. I just want to stress that that doesn't negate the fact that good things also happen, and that all countries have good and bad things. Pointing out bad things is one thing; stereotyping and overly focusing only on the bad things is another. As for Muslim camps: forced reeducation and deradicalization, yes; concentration/killing/genocide: no. Try these: Daniel Dumbrill (Canadian living in China) on Uygurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6grvHceQsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6grvHceQsQ Kim Iversen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4YZBi4UTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4YZBi4UTc CGTN discussion on Xinjiang situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yMjbB1q24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yMjbB1q24 (disclaimer: yes this is Chinese state media, believe whatever you want, but I think it's still worth it to have heard this viewpoint) And then there is also the fact that tens of Muslim countries officially approved of the Xinjiang situation. That's a bit odd, isn't it? Now let me be clear: I am not claiming it's all roses and sunshine over there. It isn't, there are real problems, and people are indeed forced into things (though not killed), which is not good. But this is a more complex, nuanced situation than "China doesn't like Muslims so they kill them all".
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    > "China doesn't like Muslims so they kill them all". You should know that it's the han way or death for the CCP. I don't understand the point of to your posts. Whataboutism is a poor excuse.
    - FooBarWidget 7y ago
      The point is to provide a more balanced and fair view of things. Accusations of whataboutism is disingenuous, especially because I didn't even engage in it: I talked about China only. If anything, the parent I replied to is the one that talked about other nations. And there you go with the "or death" thing. Forced reeducation and detention, yes. But where is the proof that systematic killing is happening? All the proof of the latter I've seen so far come from US government or US-funded sources with poor research methodology (see for example https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/amp/ https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nat...). And what do you say about the fact that a dozen of Muslim nations officially approve of China's conduct in Xinjiang?
rorykoehler 7y ago
The CCP are an ideological cult who will stop at nothing until everyone conforms to their ideology. Yes they have created a system, a cold techno-dystopian system that is my worst nightmare. Just because Hitler also built autobahns doesn't mean he was a good guy or his systems were OK.

philliphaydon 7y ago

> I was born in China Did you earn your red scarf?

FooBarWidget 7y ago
Yes I did. Not even kidding. You get it when you generally behave like a good student at school. Maybe you associate it with something else (probably Mao mass murdering or w/e) but most Chinese see it as a pretty normal school thing.
- philliphaydon 7y ago
  Correct, you get it when you show loyalty to ccp.
  - tly_alex 7y ago
    Stereotypes like this is just unbelievable in this days and in HN.
    - dang 7y ago
      I understand the feeling. Unfortunately it's inevitable that stereotypes etc. end up on HN, simply because HN is millions of people. At any moment, some population sample is getting activated by something that appears here and someone will get triggered into commenting. It's important not to generalize from posts like that to the entire community, because if you do it will feel like you're surrounded by enemies, when the opposite is true. I sometimes find it helpful to replace "HN" with "large statistical distribution" in a sentence. It's usually true and makes things less dismaying.
ubermon 7y ago
I am quite surprised to see those stereotypes on hacker news . Looking at all the accounts with names like systemxxx and throwawayxxx, I feel conspiracy theory is no joke
- dang 7y ago
  Unfortunately, this kind of thing makes it on to HN. That's inevitable when a forum has millions of users, anonymity is ok, and the topic is divisive. We do what we can to try to convince people to follow the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and we ban accounts that violate them repeatedly. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20nationalis&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
dang 7y ago
Slurs like this will get you banned here. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309 also. People have been hounded off this site because of their national origin. I'm sure you'll agree that that's utterly shameful. Unfortunately it's what we end up with when people allow baser instincts to drive their posts. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

philliphaydon 7y ago

> "I'm sitting home in Wuhan and eating free vegetables and fish govt sent me and you tell me it hurts my human rights???" Delivered via rubbish trucks. https://mothership.sg/2020/03/garbage-trucks-wuhan/ https://mothership.sg/2020/03/garbage-trucks-wuhan/ > American and Canadian, living & studying in china, talk about how it is actually like there Actual videos from china https://archive.nothingburger.today/Videos/ https://archive.nothingburger.today/Videos/

antigirl 7y ago

Agree but not the good hero you make them out to be either. Does any other nation have Muslim concentration camps. Invasive tracking? And extreme sensorships measures?

FooBarWidget 7y ago
I didn't claim they are heroes. I explicitly said that bad things do happen. I just want to stress that that doesn't negate the fact that good things also happen, and that all countries have good and bad things. Pointing out bad things is one thing; stereotyping and overly focusing only on the bad things is another. As for Muslim camps: forced reeducation and deradicalization, yes; concentration/killing/genocide: no. Try these: Daniel Dumbrill (Canadian living in China) on Uygurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6grvHceQsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6grvHceQsQ Kim Iversen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4YZBi4UTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4YZBi4UTc CGTN discussion on Xinjiang situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yMjbB1q24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yMjbB1q24 (disclaimer: yes this is Chinese state media, believe whatever you want, but I think it's still worth it to have heard this viewpoint) And then there is also the fact that tens of Muslim countries officially approved of the Xinjiang situation. That's a bit odd, isn't it? Now let me be clear: I am not claiming it's all roses and sunshine over there. It isn't, there are real problems, and people are indeed forced into things (though not killed), which is not good. But this is a more complex, nuanced situation than "China doesn't like Muslims so they kill them all".
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  > "China doesn't like Muslims so they kill them all". You should know that it's the han way or death for the CCP. I don't understand the point of to your posts. Whataboutism is a poor excuse.
  - FooBarWidget 7y ago
    The point is to provide a more balanced and fair view of things. Accusations of whataboutism is disingenuous, especially because I didn't even engage in it: I talked about China only. If anything, the parent I replied to is the one that talked about other nations. And there you go with the "or death" thing. Forced reeducation and detention, yes. But where is the proof that systematic killing is happening? All the proof of the latter I've seen so far come from US government or US-funded sources with poor research methodology (see for example https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/amp/ https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nat...). And what do you say about the fact that a dozen of Muslim nations officially approve of China's conduct in Xinjiang?

rorykoehler 7y ago

The CCP are an ideological cult who will stop at nothing until everyone conforms to their ideology. Yes they have created a system, a cold techno-dystopian system that is my worst nightmare. Just because Hitler also built autobahns doesn't mean he was a good guy or his systems were OK.