6 ms·

> There are some good stories too, especially the sacrifice of the healthcare workers What is good about that? They are terrified to come to work. This herois

> There are some good stories too, especially the sacrifice of the healthcare workers What is good about that? They are terrified to come to work. This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. After crisis is over, there will be no financial compensation (overtimes, hazardous environment, no protective equipment).

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. Every medical worker who goes into the fray to help save people in this pandemic deserves the highest praise. Every medical worker who doesn't on the grounds that it's extremely unsafe deserves understanding - after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue; a sick or dead medical practitioner can't help anyone anymore. Every hospital administrator and every politician who did anything but their absolute best to help ensure a safe working environment for medical workers, and every private company that continued to fleece healthcare, deserve to be called out, shunned and stripped of their possessions. I have doctors in my family, and I worry about their lives every day. Talking with them, I wouldn't blame my Poland's medical staff if they all decided to just pack up and leave. It's an absolute tragedy that medical personnel has to fight an uphill battle just to have a chance of not dying, trying to save people from COVID-19. As much as I can believe the news, it's the same in most of Europe and in the US. I hope that after the dust settles, there will be a reckoning. That people will finally demand that their governments unbreak their healthcare.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue Years back when I was trained as a lifeguard, this point was repeatedly emphasized. The first thing you do when you see somebody who needs help is to review the situation for any environmental hazard that could harm you too. It makes no sense to run up to somebody laying on the ground only to slip on the same puddle and crack your skull too. That would only make the situation worse.
  - fuzzybeard 7y ago
    Certified first responder here. It was drilled into our training that our safety comes first. Imagine you rush to help someone and get hurt. Now, you can't help that person AND now there are 2 people that need aid instead of 1. So that 1 ambulance you called out is no longer sufficient.
- zepto 7y ago
  I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I wish people would stop listing “praise” as the primary thing that healthcare workers deserve. Why not say they deserve money?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Fair, and I absolutely agree with that. Unfortunately, it would have to be mandated by fiat for it to happen, because market economy tends to reward people in proportion to the inverse of the value they provide to the society at large.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them, so unskilled jobs get rewarded less. There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        > Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them Mostly true. I'd say true, if by "replace" you mean "replace with someone equally capable of earning business the same amount of money". In this sense, top celebrities get absurdly high payouts because they cannot be easily substituted by someone who can bring in equivalent fanbase (=money). > so unskilled jobs get rewarded less Not necessarily. A CRUD app often pays more than medicine, but then again sometimes plumbing or construction work pays more than either. > There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life. Depends on an app. A one that helps move medicine around more efficiently, or reduce pollution in a city, effectively saves lives. But I've noticed that building such apps tends to be low on the pay scale. What pays best in this industry is usually something that's a net negative to society, like adtech or gambling.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    They already get paid, getting paid should really go without saying. Of course maybe they should be paid more. I don't really know how much they get paid and how much more they should get paid. I've heard the industry is abusive in some ways, but from what I've heard most of the abuse seems like institutionalized hazing; particularly the sleep deprivation stuff. In those respects, I think it's probably on that industry to clean up their own act. The AMA is a professional association for doctors, by doctors. It seems to me they should be able to do something about the abuse.
systemvoltage 7y ago
It is a good story as in if they didn't do what they are doing today - say every healthcare worker quits tomorrow, we are in a huge trouble. They are identical to soldiers. Some healthcare workers are being exposed to Coronavirus and dying. In fact, we should have similar veteran-like benefits for healthcare workers for their sacrifice during this time. Same with delivery workers - they are the logistics arm of this war.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

> This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. Every medical worker who goes into the fray to help save people in this pandemic deserves the highest praise. Every medical worker who doesn't on the grounds that it's extremely unsafe deserves understanding - after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue; a sick or dead medical practitioner can't help anyone anymore. Every hospital administrator and every politician who did anything but their absolute best to help ensure a safe working environment for medical workers, and every private company that continued to fleece healthcare, deserve to be called out, shunned and stripped of their possessions. I have doctors in my family, and I worry about their lives every day. Talking with them, I wouldn't blame my Poland's medical staff if they all decided to just pack up and leave. It's an absolute tragedy that medical personnel has to fight an uphill battle just to have a chance of not dying, trying to save people from COVID-19. As much as I can believe the news, it's the same in most of Europe and in the US. I hope that after the dust settles, there will be a reckoning. That people will finally demand that their governments unbreak their healthcare.

catalogia 7y ago
> after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue Years back when I was trained as a lifeguard, this point was repeatedly emphasized. The first thing you do when you see somebody who needs help is to review the situation for any environmental hazard that could harm you too. It makes no sense to run up to somebody laying on the ground only to slip on the same puddle and crack your skull too. That would only make the situation worse.
- fuzzybeard 7y ago
  Certified first responder here. It was drilled into our training that our safety comes first. Imagine you rush to help someone and get hurt. Now, you can't help that person AND now there are 2 people that need aid instead of 1. So that 1 ambulance you called out is no longer sufficient.
zepto 7y ago
I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I wish people would stop listing “praise” as the primary thing that healthcare workers deserve. Why not say they deserve money?
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Fair, and I absolutely agree with that. Unfortunately, it would have to be mandated by fiat for it to happen, because market economy tends to reward people in proportion to the inverse of the value they provide to the society at large.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them, so unskilled jobs get rewarded less. There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Market economy rewards people in proportion to what costs to replace them Mostly true. I'd say true, if by "replace" you mean "replace with someone equally capable of earning business the same amount of money". In this sense, top celebrities get absurdly high payouts because they cannot be easily substituted by someone who can bring in equivalent fanbase (=money). > so unskilled jobs get rewarded less Not necessarily. A CRUD app often pays more than medicine, but then again sometimes plumbing or construction work pays more than either. > There is no chance in hell writing a crud app delivers more value to society than saving one single life. Depends on an app. A one that helps move medicine around more efficiently, or reduce pollution in a city, effectively saves lives. But I've noticed that building such apps tends to be low on the pay scale. What pays best in this industry is usually something that's a net negative to society, like adtech or gambling.
- catalogia 7y ago
  They already get paid, getting paid should really go without saying. Of course maybe they should be paid more. I don't really know how much they get paid and how much more they should get paid. I've heard the industry is abusive in some ways, but from what I've heard most of the abuse seems like institutionalized hazing; particularly the sleep deprivation stuff. In those respects, I think it's probably on that industry to clean up their own act. The AMA is a professional association for doctors, by doctors. It seems to me they should be able to do something about the abuse.

systemvoltage 7y ago

It is a good story as in if they didn't do what they are doing today - say every healthcare worker quits tomorrow, we are in a huge trouble. They are identical to soldiers. Some healthcare workers are being exposed to Coronavirus and dying. In fact, we should have similar veteran-like benefits for healthcare workers for their sacrifice during this time. Same with delivery workers - they are the logistics arm of this war.