4 ms·

I great worry that China's intelligence service has the zoom traffic of American's routed to the Chinese zoom servers, so they can intercept.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Yes, but why does it matter if China intercepts your American school children? Why would they want to? That's not a reasonable threat model.
- rangibaby 6y ago
  It still leaks information. How many kids you have, their name, some things about their personality, who they are friends with, etc. Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    > Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information. "Someone", sure, but not the Chinese Government! That's a completely different threat model!
    - dionian 6y ago
      how so
  - abnry 6y ago
    I couldn't imagine it mattering to any random individual, but I could imagine some American diplomat or defense contractor being concerned.
    - rangibaby 6y ago
      I would say contributing or maintaining anything on Github would make you a possible target, you never know
  - magduf 6y ago
    You seriously think the Chinese government is going to stoop to K&R with random Americans? The Chinese government is the last entity I'd be worried about with this kind of information (unless, of course, you live in China). Certain criminals in your own country are a much bigger concern.
    - hnick 6y ago
      Doubtful. But "the Chinese government" is comprised of individuals who might want to make a quick buck selling information on various markets. Perhaps to those certain criminals better positioned to take advantage of it. This is similar to the concern some of us had over giving local government departments access to our full Opal card public transport travel histories here in Australia. Not all government employees are up to no good, but some are. Don't give them more than they need.
- jMyles 6y ago
  Are you serious? Manipulate the mental health, political engagement, and commerce activities of an entire generation, that's what.
- zwaps 6y ago
  What is being taught about the CCP and Xi to children all over the world is very relevant to the CCP. See their push into universities.
- coribuci 6y ago
  > Yes, but why does it matter if China intercepts your American school children? Why would they want to? That's not a reasonable threat model. Because China=bad, Google or Facebook or Microsoft (which all provide data to) or NSA =good
SiVal 6y ago
The Chinese gov't spying problem isn't with schoolchildren per se but schoolchildren use their parents' computers. Chinese authorities openly demonstrate their intention to deploy the maximum level of surveillance they can over any adult within their reach. This just increases their reach.
- silon42 6y ago
  Even if they don't use their parents' computers, if Zoom is not totally sandboxed, they can hack the child's OS, they can mess with computers on LAN, or the router/wifi.
fludlight 6y ago
Every native app made by a Chinese company could also provide a backdoor to the PLA. Same could be said about apps from other countries and the NSA, FSB, GCHQ, Mossad, ASD, whatever the Germans are calling the gentler, kinder, totally-not-spying-on-everyone-anymore-we-swear successor to the Stasi, etc. There is no specific evidence for this, but it is a possibility. Balancing remote possibilities and accepting some that are beyond our control is what separates the sane from the tinfoil hat crowd. Personally, I would try to stick to apps by companies headquartered in your home country. This is difficult outside of the USA and probably impossible outside of the next 5 top software hub countries.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  the gentler, kinder, totally-not-spying-on-everyone-anymore-we-swear successor to the Stasi, etc I like it! I'd totally give that TV series a try!
  - technicaldonut 6y ago
    That'd be the BND as an FYI
    - ascar 6y ago
      I think that's technically incorrect. The BND (and it's military sibling MAD) are mostly concerned with foreign intelligence, while the Stasi was mostly used for internal surveillance. The subdivision HVA inside the Stasi would be the equivalent to the BND, while the larger and infamous internal surveillance of the Stasi is now in the responsibility of the Verfassungsschutz.
      - coribuci 6y ago
        > I think that's technically incorrect. The BND (and it's military sibling MAD) are mostly concerned with foreign intelligence, while the Stasi was mostly used for internal surveillance. Of course they are. That's why they are happy to work with NSA which get everything that is routed through frankfurt. >The subdivision HVA inside the Stasi would be the equivalent to the BND, while the larger and infamous internal surveillance of the Stasi is now in the responsibility of the Verfassungsschutz.
zobzu 6y ago
I'm not sure why you worry about that. It's guaranteed they have it and use it. You should worry about "is it a problem for me that the Chinese government and Chinese companies have access to my video meeting streams" If yes: do not use Zoom right now. If no: do what you want.
- magduf 6y ago
  If China wants to waste its resources having people spy on me on Zoom while I play board games with friends on it, then this seems like a good thing to me. But I wouldn't use it for work meetings.
  - fiblye 6y ago
    China doesn't have any concerns about wasting resources. They have more than enough to spare. Vacuuming up any sort of mundane daily task people do is good data to feed into some AI that can easily distinguish fluff conversations from useful interactions worth investigating.
    - wakenmeng 6y ago
      Why you said like you are sure that China is spying the Zoom streams? Where's ur evidence? or just "obviously"?
      - fiblye 6y ago
        Not sure what your interest is in this, but I was responding to his not caring if China harvests his data. I didn't make claims about Zoom sending the data to China, but I've seen other people make comments around the internet that Zoom is sending the data to China, and they promptly get flooded with comments tearing them apart for having suspicions. But you made me look into this. Apparently Zoom does "accidentally" (accidents like this don't really happen) send data to China. [1] It's very normal for companies to completely divide up their Chinese servers and non-Chinese servers, so the rerouting makes me suspicious. [1]https://www.businessinsider.com/china-zoom-data-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-zoom-data-2020-4

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Yes, but why does it matter if China intercepts your American school children? Why would they want to? That's not a reasonable threat model.

rangibaby 6y ago
It still leaks information. How many kids you have, their name, some things about their personality, who they are friends with, etc. Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information. "Someone", sure, but not the Chinese Government! That's a completely different threat model!
  - dionian 6y ago
    how so
- abnry 6y ago
  I couldn't imagine it mattering to any random individual, but I could imagine some American diplomat or defense contractor being concerned.
  - rangibaby 6y ago
    I would say contributing or maintaining anything on Github would make you a possible target, you never know
- magduf 6y ago
  You seriously think the Chinese government is going to stoop to K&R with random Americans? The Chinese government is the last entity I'd be worried about with this kind of information (unless, of course, you live in China). Certain criminals in your own country are a much bigger concern.
  - hnick 6y ago
    Doubtful. But "the Chinese government" is comprised of individuals who might want to make a quick buck selling information on various markets. Perhaps to those certain criminals better positioned to take advantage of it. This is similar to the concern some of us had over giving local government departments access to our full Opal card public transport travel histories here in Australia. Not all government employees are up to no good, but some are. Don't give them more than they need.
jMyles 6y ago
Are you serious? Manipulate the mental health, political engagement, and commerce activities of an entire generation, that's what.
zwaps 6y ago
What is being taught about the CCP and Xi to children all over the world is very relevant to the CCP. See their push into universities.
coribuci 6y ago
> Yes, but why does it matter if China intercepts your American school children? Why would they want to? That's not a reasonable threat model. Because China=bad, Google or Facebook or Microsoft (which all provide data to) or NSA =good

SiVal 6y ago

The Chinese gov't spying problem isn't with schoolchildren per se but schoolchildren use their parents' computers. Chinese authorities openly demonstrate their intention to deploy the maximum level of surveillance they can over any adult within their reach. This just increases their reach.

silon42 6y ago
Even if they don't use their parents' computers, if Zoom is not totally sandboxed, they can hack the child's OS, they can mess with computers on LAN, or the router/wifi.

fludlight 6y ago

Every native app made by a Chinese company could also provide a backdoor to the PLA. Same could be said about apps from other countries and the NSA, FSB, GCHQ, Mossad, ASD, whatever the Germans are calling the gentler, kinder, totally-not-spying-on-everyone-anymore-we-swear successor to the Stasi, etc. There is no specific evidence for this, but it is a possibility. Balancing remote possibilities and accepting some that are beyond our control is what separates the sane from the tinfoil hat crowd. Personally, I would try to stick to apps by companies headquartered in your home country. This is difficult outside of the USA and probably impossible outside of the next 5 top software hub countries.

stcredzero 6y ago
the gentler, kinder, totally-not-spying-on-everyone-anymore-we-swear successor to the Stasi, etc I like it! I'd totally give that TV series a try!
- technicaldonut 6y ago
  That'd be the BND as an FYI
  - ascar 6y ago
    I think that's technically incorrect. The BND (and it's military sibling MAD) are mostly concerned with foreign intelligence, while the Stasi was mostly used for internal surveillance. The subdivision HVA inside the Stasi would be the equivalent to the BND, while the larger and infamous internal surveillance of the Stasi is now in the responsibility of the Verfassungsschutz.
    - coribuci 6y ago
      > I think that's technically incorrect. The BND (and it's military sibling MAD) are mostly concerned with foreign intelligence, while the Stasi was mostly used for internal surveillance. Of course they are. That's why they are happy to work with NSA which get everything that is routed through frankfurt. >The subdivision HVA inside the Stasi would be the equivalent to the BND, while the larger and infamous internal surveillance of the Stasi is now in the responsibility of the Verfassungsschutz.

zobzu 6y ago

I'm not sure why you worry about that. It's guaranteed they have it and use it. You should worry about "is it a problem for me that the Chinese government and Chinese companies have access to my video meeting streams" If yes: do not use Zoom right now. If no: do what you want.

magduf 6y ago
If China wants to waste its resources having people spy on me on Zoom while I play board games with friends on it, then this seems like a good thing to me. But I wouldn't use it for work meetings.
- fiblye 6y ago
  China doesn't have any concerns about wasting resources. They have more than enough to spare. Vacuuming up any sort of mundane daily task people do is good data to feed into some AI that can easily distinguish fluff conversations from useful interactions worth investigating.
  - wakenmeng 6y ago
    Why you said like you are sure that China is spying the Zoom streams? Where's ur evidence? or just "obviously"?
    - fiblye 6y ago
      Not sure what your interest is in this, but I was responding to his not caring if China harvests his data. I didn't make claims about Zoom sending the data to China, but I've seen other people make comments around the internet that Zoom is sending the data to China, and they promptly get flooded with comments tearing them apart for having suspicions. But you made me look into this. Apparently Zoom does "accidentally" (accidents like this don't really happen) send data to China. [1] It's very normal for companies to completely divide up their Chinese servers and non-Chinese servers, so the rerouting makes me suspicious. [1]https://www.businessinsider.com/china-zoom-data-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-zoom-data-2020-4