3 ms·

Also, it seems that people with low severity symptoms don't build up a lot of antibodies, so they're not sufficiently immune. So out of that 10%, only some coun

by roel_v 7y ago

Also, it seems that people with low severity symptoms don't build up a lot of antibodies, so they're not sufficiently immune. So out of that 10%, only some count towards the herd.

ztjio 7y ago
Citation?
- sroussey 7y ago
  From the last sentence in the conclusion: "Stronger antibody response was associated with delayed viral clearance and disease severity." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042382v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042382v...
  - mirimir 7y ago
    That's very interesting. > First, we observed three types of antibody responses in COVID-19 patients, strong, weak and non-response. Second, we found that the earlier response, higher antibody titer and higher proportion of strong responders for IgM and IgG were significantly associated with disease severity. Third, the weak responders for IgG antibodies had a significantly higher viral clearance rate than that of strong responders. These data indicates strong antibody response is associated with disease severity, and weak antibody response is associated with viral clearance, which resembles SARS and MERS. I have a wild-ass guess. I vaguely recall that antibody response and cellular immune response generally tend to be inversely proportional. And that IgM antibody response is an aspect of allergy. So maybe strong antibody responders tend to have weaker cellular responses, and more wet lung problems.
- roel_v 7y ago
  Preliminary results from a Dutch study I was reading about a few hours ago, in Dutch, that I came across through news.google.nl - although because I'm in a different timezone now, google news has been refreshed, and I can't find this specific one any more. So take that as you will...
goalieca 7y ago
That's not what i've seen. They're looking at it for blood transfers and finding asymptomatic people have sufficient loads. edit: i think this is logical (for my rudimentary knowledge) given the cause of death is not directly related to the virus. The symptoms of dry cough and fever are all the bodies response. Even the shortness of breath and pneumonia might be attributed to inflammation. Perhaps the asymptotic people just don't have such a strong response for whatever reason.
- hilbertseries 7y ago
  Do you have a source for this? Haven’t read that yet.
  - flor1s 7y ago
    I've seen it mostly in the Dutch news until now. The source is the Dutch CDC (RIVM) via Marion Koopmans (Professor of virology and head of the virology department at the Erasmus Medical Center). Article in Dutch (translated title: Mild corona virus symptoms seem to lead to lower creation of antibodies) https://nos.nl/artikel/2329846-milde-coronaklachten-lijken-minder-antistoffen-op-te-leveren-wat-betekent-dat.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2329846-milde-coronaklachten-lijken-m...
    - hilbertseries 7y ago
      This article says that people with mild symptoms have fewer antibodies and says it’s unclear if they can be reinfected. Further it doesn’t mention asymptomatic cases.
akvadrako 7y ago
You don't even need to be infected to develop the right antibodies: https://www.randombio.com/coronavirus2.html https://www.randombio.com/coronavirus2.html You may not have a lot of them, but you have already evolved targeted killers.

by roel_v 7y ago

Also, it seems that people with low severity symptoms don't build up a lot of antibodies, so they're not sufficiently immune. So out of that 10%, only some count towards the herd.

ztjio 7y ago

Citation?

sroussey 7y ago
From the last sentence in the conclusion: "Stronger antibody response was associated with delayed viral clearance and disease severity." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042382v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042382v...
- mirimir 7y ago
  That's very interesting. > First, we observed three types of antibody responses in COVID-19 patients, strong, weak and non-response. Second, we found that the earlier response, higher antibody titer and higher proportion of strong responders for IgM and IgG were significantly associated with disease severity. Third, the weak responders for IgG antibodies had a significantly higher viral clearance rate than that of strong responders. These data indicates strong antibody response is associated with disease severity, and weak antibody response is associated with viral clearance, which resembles SARS and MERS. I have a wild-ass guess. I vaguely recall that antibody response and cellular immune response generally tend to be inversely proportional. And that IgM antibody response is an aspect of allergy. So maybe strong antibody responders tend to have weaker cellular responses, and more wet lung problems.
roel_v 7y ago
Preliminary results from a Dutch study I was reading about a few hours ago, in Dutch, that I came across through news.google.nl - although because I'm in a different timezone now, google news has been refreshed, and I can't find this specific one any more. So take that as you will...

goalieca 7y ago

That's not what i've seen. They're looking at it for blood transfers and finding asymptomatic people have sufficient loads. edit: i think this is logical (for my rudimentary knowledge) given the cause of death is not directly related to the virus. The symptoms of dry cough and fever are all the bodies response. Even the shortness of breath and pneumonia might be attributed to inflammation. Perhaps the asymptotic people just don't have such a strong response for whatever reason.

hilbertseries 7y ago
Do you have a source for this? Haven’t read that yet.
- flor1s 7y ago
  I've seen it mostly in the Dutch news until now. The source is the Dutch CDC (RIVM) via Marion Koopmans (Professor of virology and head of the virology department at the Erasmus Medical Center). Article in Dutch (translated title: Mild corona virus symptoms seem to lead to lower creation of antibodies) https://nos.nl/artikel/2329846-milde-coronaklachten-lijken-minder-antistoffen-op-te-leveren-wat-betekent-dat.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2329846-milde-coronaklachten-lijken-m...
  - hilbertseries 7y ago
    This article says that people with mild symptoms have fewer antibodies and says it’s unclear if they can be reinfected. Further it doesn’t mention asymptomatic cases.

akvadrako 7y ago

You don't even need to be infected to develop the right antibodies: https://www.randombio.com/coronavirus2.html https://www.randombio.com/coronavirus2.html You may not have a lot of them, but you have already evolved targeted killers.