4 ms·

Does it "generally account for scale"? Citation needed. The GDPR has a fine structure of up to 4% of world-wide turnover or €20 million. Whichever is HIGHER. Th

Does it "generally account for scale"? Citation needed. The GDPR has a fine structure of up to 4% of world-wide turnover or €20 million. Whichever is HIGHER. That means for any company doing less than say, €20 million in revenue and found to be non-compliant, GDPR gives the legal authority to fine them out of existence. I only mention GDPR as a specific example because of the familiarity here, but the general pattern of non-scaling regulation that results in regulatory capture and monopolization is the norm, not the exception.

IAmEveryone 7y ago
You’re conveniently ignoring that the percentage-based fine structure in itself is almost literally “accounting for scale”. The minimum (of the maximum) set by the “whichever is higher” clause is needed to remain effective with non- and low-revenue entities. Something like Clearview (universal face recognition but startup with little revenue) would otherwise be free to ignore the law. If your small company does enough damage to warrant a 20 million fine, it probably deserves to die. These fines also aren’t assessed arbitrarily: there’s a specific list of factors to take into account, and all decisions are subject to judicial review under the established principles of proportionality.
- novok 7y ago
  > These fines also aren’t assessed arbitrarily: there’s a specific list of factors to take into account, and all decisions are subject to judicial review under the established principles of proportionality. You hope bureaucrats do not act mechanistically and do not apply proportionality, but over and over again in recent history you see that exact behavior. Which is why no business trusts a statement of 'they'll be might be nice, but nothing is effectively stopping them from not being nice other than some platitudes'!
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    > You hope bureaucrats do not act ... nothing is effectively stopping them from not being nice other than some platitudes One argument goes something like this: The state always reserves the right to extinguish you, either by execution or permanent non-judicial incarceration, regardless of laws. We all can only always hope state-level actors don't abuse their powers. Whether they are or aren't at any particular time is somewhat subjective.
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Context matters: The fines must be effective, proportionate and dissuasive for each individual case. For the decision of whether and what level of penalty can be assessed, the authorities have a statutory catalogue of criteria which it must consider for their decision. Among other things, intentional infringement, a failure to take measures to mitigate the damage which occurred, or lack of collaboration with authorities can increase the penalties. For especially severe violations, listed in Art. 83(5) GDPR, the fine framework can be up to 20 million euros, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of their total global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. But even the catalogue of less severe violations in Art. 83(4) GDPR sets forth fines of up to 10 million euros, or, in the case of an undertaking, up to 2% of its entire global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/fines-penalties/ https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/fines-penalties/

IAmEveryone 7y ago

You’re conveniently ignoring that the percentage-based fine structure in itself is almost literally “accounting for scale”. The minimum (of the maximum) set by the “whichever is higher” clause is needed to remain effective with non- and low-revenue entities. Something like Clearview (universal face recognition but startup with little revenue) would otherwise be free to ignore the law. If your small company does enough damage to warrant a 20 million fine, it probably deserves to die. These fines also aren’t assessed arbitrarily: there’s a specific list of factors to take into account, and all decisions are subject to judicial review under the established principles of proportionality.

novok 7y ago
> These fines also aren’t assessed arbitrarily: there’s a specific list of factors to take into account, and all decisions are subject to judicial review under the established principles of proportionality. You hope bureaucrats do not act mechanistically and do not apply proportionality, but over and over again in recent history you see that exact behavior. Which is why no business trusts a statement of 'they'll be might be nice, but nothing is effectively stopping them from not being nice other than some platitudes'!
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  > You hope bureaucrats do not act ... nothing is effectively stopping them from not being nice other than some platitudes One argument goes something like this: The state always reserves the right to extinguish you, either by execution or permanent non-judicial incarceration, regardless of laws. We all can only always hope state-level actors don't abuse their powers. Whether they are or aren't at any particular time is somewhat subjective.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

Context matters: The fines must be effective, proportionate and dissuasive for each individual case. For the decision of whether and what level of penalty can be assessed, the authorities have a statutory catalogue of criteria which it must consider for their decision. Among other things, intentional infringement, a failure to take measures to mitigate the damage which occurred, or lack of collaboration with authorities can increase the penalties. For especially severe violations, listed in Art. 83(5) GDPR, the fine framework can be up to 20 million euros, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of their total global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. But even the catalogue of less severe violations in Art. 83(4) GDPR sets forth fines of up to 10 million euros, or, in the case of an undertaking, up to 2% of its entire global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/fines-penalties/ https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/fines-penalties/