5 ms·

Biden wont make a dent in the Trump base if you have seen a Trump rally. Normalcy is going to take a long time to restore. We have to just wait for a politicia

by op03 7y ago

Biden wont make a dent in the Trump base if you have seen a Trump rally. Normalcy is going to take a long time to restore. We have to just wait for a politician who can connect and build trust with that base. And hope the size of that base doesn't grow as all kinds of frustrations mount.

jacquesm 7y ago
Nobody will make a dent in the Trump base. If Trumps misconduct to date doesn't sway them then no outsider ever will. Very few of them will change sides, there was actually an example on HN here a few days ago. But that's definitely not representative of what is happening in Trumps base as a whole.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  I think the Trump base knows all that (about Trump's, ah, questionable ethics and, um, distance from the truth and so on), and they don't care, because Trump's appeal was never that he was ethical, or that he was telling the truth. His appeal was that he would do what they thought needed done. And he has more or less done that. They didn't think that open borders were a good idea. Trump has pushed fairly hard to close them. They didn't think that shipping jobs to China was a good idea. Trump not only paid lip service to stopping it, he put tariffs on China. And so on. Now, if you want to get rid of Trump, you almost certainly have to appeal to those people. You aren't going to do it by telling them how stupid they are, or how racist they are. You aren't even going to do it by telling them how much of a liar Trump is. You have to do it like this: "You're worried about jobs going to China? Yeah, we understand. That's a real concern. And you don't just want a welfare check when the factory closed, you want another job. Here's what we're going to do about that, and here's why it's better than what Trump is doing." And you need to be right - your approach has to be beter than Trump's, and they have to see yours as better. You can't get rid of Trump by looking at half the country as backward hicks who just need to be stomped into political oblivion. You have to care about their problems, and you have to help with their problems. Then you can make a dent in Trump's base.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Trumps base has been hit hardest by his so called solutions. None of those made even the slightest dent in their situation and now the economy on its ass due to Corona and Trumps ineptness it'll get worse.
  - krapp 7y ago
    But what if they can't have what they want? What if they want the mines reopened, and coal and oil workers back to work, the factories churning out American goods made on American soil, and lifetime employment with a pension and health insurance, a turkey in every pot and two cars in every garage like their fathers or grandfathers had, but the world has moved on, and the jobs and stability they want simply cannot, and will never, exist in the modern world? What if "socialist" initiatives like nationalized healthcare, UBI and free college are better options?
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      Then tell them so. Tell them in a way that they understand. Don't tell them in a way that you understand, and then look down on them because they don't get it.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        That's not how voting in America works. People will vote for whoever promises them what they want to hear. You can stand there on the other side of the line with your scientifically supported facts and you'll be an also ran. People actually want to be lied to.
        AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        I didn't say "give them scientifically supported facts". I meant that you tell them that your approach is going to get them what they actually want, and that you can deliver and the other guys can't. But to do that, you first have to understand both what they want and how they think. Then you can talk to them in terms they understand. [Edit: I'm not knocking facts. By all means, use them. We absolutely need more reality in our political discourse. But you have to present the facts within their frame of reference, not yours. You need to be able to make a blue-collar midwesterner understand why Trump has let them down without expecting them to adopt the mindset of a coastal liberal.]
codesternews 7y ago
Well, I think Biden is not as competent as Trump. Democrats already lost it as far as I can see and I might be wrong. There are so many issues with Biden(his speech problems, changing facts) and in the debates he will loose against trump which is Trump's main strategy. Most of people will lean towards trump in case of confusion because he already run it as president. I am an outsider and might be completely wrong but seems like Democrats does not learn the lesson from the past. They played again the people and voters.

by op03 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago

Nobody will make a dent in the Trump base. If Trumps misconduct to date doesn't sway them then no outsider ever will. Very few of them will change sides, there was actually an example on HN here a few days ago. But that's definitely not representative of what is happening in Trumps base as a whole.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
I think the Trump base knows all that (about Trump's, ah, questionable ethics and, um, distance from the truth and so on), and they don't care, because Trump's appeal was never that he was ethical, or that he was telling the truth. His appeal was that he would do what they thought needed done. And he has more or less done that. They didn't think that open borders were a good idea. Trump has pushed fairly hard to close them. They didn't think that shipping jobs to China was a good idea. Trump not only paid lip service to stopping it, he put tariffs on China. And so on. Now, if you want to get rid of Trump, you almost certainly have to appeal to those people. You aren't going to do it by telling them how stupid they are, or how racist they are. You aren't even going to do it by telling them how much of a liar Trump is. You have to do it like this: "You're worried about jobs going to China? Yeah, we understand. That's a real concern. And you don't just want a welfare check when the factory closed, you want another job. Here's what we're going to do about that, and here's why it's better than what Trump is doing." And you need to be right - your approach has to be beter than Trump's, and they have to see yours as better. You can't get rid of Trump by looking at half the country as backward hicks who just need to be stomped into political oblivion. You have to care about their problems, and you have to help with their problems. Then you can make a dent in Trump's base.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Trumps base has been hit hardest by his so called solutions. None of those made even the slightest dent in their situation and now the economy on its ass due to Corona and Trumps ineptness it'll get worse.
- krapp 7y ago
  But what if they can't have what they want? What if they want the mines reopened, and coal and oil workers back to work, the factories churning out American goods made on American soil, and lifetime employment with a pension and health insurance, a turkey in every pot and two cars in every garage like their fathers or grandfathers had, but the world has moved on, and the jobs and stability they want simply cannot, and will never, exist in the modern world? What if "socialist" initiatives like nationalized healthcare, UBI and free college are better options?
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Then tell them so. Tell them in a way that they understand. Don't tell them in a way that you understand, and then look down on them because they don't get it.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      That's not how voting in America works. People will vote for whoever promises them what they want to hear. You can stand there on the other side of the line with your scientifically supported facts and you'll be an also ran. People actually want to be lied to.
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        I didn't say "give them scientifically supported facts". I meant that you tell them that your approach is going to get them what they actually want, and that you can deliver and the other guys can't. But to do that, you first have to understand both what they want and how they think. Then you can talk to them in terms they understand. [Edit: I'm not knocking facts. By all means, use them. We absolutely need more reality in our political discourse. But you have to present the facts within their frame of reference, not yours. You need to be able to make a blue-collar midwesterner understand why Trump has let them down without expecting them to adopt the mindset of a coastal liberal.]

codesternews 7y ago

Well, I think Biden is not as competent as Trump. Democrats already lost it as far as I can see and I might be wrong. There are so many issues with Biden(his speech problems, changing facts) and in the debates he will loose against trump which is Trump's main strategy. Most of people will lean towards trump in case of confusion because he already run it as president. I am an outsider and might be completely wrong but seems like Democrats does not learn the lesson from the past. They played again the people and voters.