7 ms·

Just to offer a counter point: this crisis feels mostly manufactured. Zoom is under a microscope that almost all other comm software would fail just as horribly

Just to offer a counter point: this crisis feels mostly manufactured. Zoom is under a microscope that almost all other comm software would fail just as horribly, if not worse. Maybe the majority of users here were too young to remember, but Skype was far, far worse, and did not have same positive response and seriousness Zoom seems to be having. That said, competition and alternatives is good!

Nextgrid 7y ago
Skype used to be flawless until Microsoft decided to get rid of the P2P model and replace beautiful native clients with an Electron pile of crap.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Not sure it was quite flawless, but it has gone from being my first-choice platform to last place. I fear that LinkedIn is going down a similar path, post-acquisition.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    > I fear that LinkedIn is going down a similar path, post-acquisition. While I'm sure it could be made worse, I didn't exactly hear anything good about LinkedIn pre-aquisition, either.
    - gnicholas 7y ago
      Fair point. The most noticeable difference so far has been the hardening of the login wall.
- CrankyBear 7y ago
  I remember that version of Skype and flawless wasn't the word I'd use for it. Buggy and insecure as hell are what come to my mind.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    I’m curious about the “insecure” part of it? I haven’t heard of any large-scale security incident about it.
    - nonesuchluck 7y ago
      A number of Internet personalities such as Twitch streamers were doxxed with a little help from Skype IPs. Maybe impossible to avoid without centralized hubs or an overlay network like Tor. It is curious how Skype was started by Kazaa engineers basically to find a legit use for their p2p streaming tech, and now it's not even p2p anymore.
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  Yeah no. Skype was certainly good at the time, but compared to discord, slack, hangouts, or pretty much any contemporary chat app/suite, it didn't stand up. Also as another user mentioned, skype was a DOS vector for individual users.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  I don't have any issues with Skype and it's my #1 choice when videocalling my friends all over the world. What exactly are the issues with Skype?
notechback 7y ago
But Skype was actually an encrypted communication channel until Microsoft bought it and removed server-side encryption
windexh8er 7y ago
I disagree that this feels manufactured. It's due to a catalyst - one that has brought on a lot of positive and negative attention to Zoom. The evidence is all there and it is factual. Zoom has misrepresented their encryption on both the implementation and operational sides. However to say that only the bad press Zoom has received is "manufactured" is a misrepresentation. I'm not sure I follow the Skype comparison. If you're talking about Skype historically (and it seems you are) - then that was before a lot of the strong privacy and encryption conversations were being had in the larger audience of consumers. Setting this comparison is a slippery slope. Yes, we know Skype was used and abused by nation state actors - but for the time encryption was not the norm. Things have changed and today misrepresenting encryption and privacy is a much more grave sin that consumers are more concerned about. Businesses lying or misrepresenting it should have been held accountable back then - but they only finally are now.
- holler 7y ago
  > Things have changed and today misrepresenting encryption and privacy is a much more grave sin that consumers are more concerned about. Not disagreeing but I think we have to remember that 99% of consumers are not HN tech gurus and really don’t care. They only care about the quality of the product/experience, and clearly Zoom has topped the market on those (similar to slack for enterprise chat).
  - windexh8er 6y ago
    Consumers, in my opinion, have a much more vested interest in privacy and security today. If we look at Apple [0][1] - they've invested significantly in wrapping their brand around it. To say that "99% of consumers are not HN tech gurus and really don't care" seems, to me, an unfounded perspective. Again, in my opinion - but factually we have a lot of evidence to support the contrary. [0] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-tied-to-new-privacy-website-suggesting-future-security-marketing/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-tied-to-new-privacy-website-...
- alharith 6y ago
  > then that was before a lot of the strong privacy and encryption conversations were being had in the larger audience of consumers That is an extremely. weak defense. There were plenty of other companies taking user security seriously. Many of our encryption standards and security certifications in use today were created in the 90s and 00s.
SamWhited 7y ago
> Just to offer a counter point: this crisis feels mostly manufactured. Zoom is under a microscope that almost all other comm software would fail just as horribly, if not worse I fail to see why this matters; let's assume this is true and everything else is just as bad (and a lot of stuff is just as bad, so this may be a fair assumption): the answer is that they should be put under the microscope too and forced to clean up their act and stop lying to users or putting them at risk unnecessarily with bad development processes. The answer is not to just say "meh, everyone else is just as bad" and keep using Zoom.
simias 7y ago
I assumed the parent was talking about the COVID-19 crisis. Or is there a Zoom-related crisis I missed?
dmix 7y ago
Signal went under a microscope during a critical time (Snowden leaks) and not only succeeded but changed how everyone else was doing it or at least set a new bar. Which then proceeded to help hundreds of millions of people as apps like WhatsApp adopted their crypto.
- holler 7y ago
  yeah but how many non-tech minded people use or have heard of signal vs those who have used or heard of a zoom meeting?
  - dmix 7y ago
    If major plays like WhtatsApp being capable of figuring it out and adopting it with hundreds of millions of users, then I fully believe any-sized company can where it won't kill their business model. It doesn't need to be a part of Zoom's business model to watch everything so there's no excuse not to. And after that people will stop bringing this up every time their brand is named.
tareqak 7y ago
If all other communication software will fail just as horribly under the same scrutiny, then it’s fine. With the quarantine, we definitely have the time to make something better.
kardos 7y ago
Expectations for security/privacy are higher now than in years past, Zoom is being evaluated with a 2020 lens.

Nextgrid 7y ago

Skype used to be flawless until Microsoft decided to get rid of the P2P model and replace beautiful native clients with an Electron pile of crap.

gnicholas 7y ago
Not sure it was quite flawless, but it has gone from being my first-choice platform to last place. I fear that LinkedIn is going down a similar path, post-acquisition.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  > I fear that LinkedIn is going down a similar path, post-acquisition. While I'm sure it could be made worse, I didn't exactly hear anything good about LinkedIn pre-aquisition, either.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    Fair point. The most noticeable difference so far has been the hardening of the login wall.
CrankyBear 7y ago
I remember that version of Skype and flawless wasn't the word I'd use for it. Buggy and insecure as hell are what come to my mind.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  I’m curious about the “insecure” part of it? I haven’t heard of any large-scale security incident about it.
  - nonesuchluck 7y ago
    A number of Internet personalities such as Twitch streamers were doxxed with a little help from Skype IPs. Maybe impossible to avoid without centralized hubs or an overlay network like Tor. It is curious how Skype was started by Kazaa engineers basically to find a legit use for their p2p streaming tech, and now it's not even p2p anymore.
joshuamorton 7y ago
Yeah no. Skype was certainly good at the time, but compared to discord, slack, hangouts, or pretty much any contemporary chat app/suite, it didn't stand up. Also as another user mentioned, skype was a DOS vector for individual users.
skocznymroczny 7y ago
I don't have any issues with Skype and it's my #1 choice when videocalling my friends all over the world. What exactly are the issues with Skype?

notechback 7y ago

But Skype was actually an encrypted communication channel until Microsoft bought it and removed server-side encryption

windexh8er 7y ago

I disagree that this feels manufactured. It's due to a catalyst - one that has brought on a lot of positive and negative attention to Zoom. The evidence is all there and it is factual. Zoom has misrepresented their encryption on both the implementation and operational sides. However to say that only the bad press Zoom has received is "manufactured" is a misrepresentation. I'm not sure I follow the Skype comparison. If you're talking about Skype historically (and it seems you are) - then that was before a lot of the strong privacy and encryption conversations were being had in the larger audience of consumers. Setting this comparison is a slippery slope. Yes, we know Skype was used and abused by nation state actors - but for the time encryption was not the norm. Things have changed and today misrepresenting encryption and privacy is a much more grave sin that consumers are more concerned about. Businesses lying or misrepresenting it should have been held accountable back then - but they only finally are now.

holler 7y ago
> Things have changed and today misrepresenting encryption and privacy is a much more grave sin that consumers are more concerned about. Not disagreeing but I think we have to remember that 99% of consumers are not HN tech gurus and really don’t care. They only care about the quality of the product/experience, and clearly Zoom has topped the market on those (similar to slack for enterprise chat).
- windexh8er 6y ago
  Consumers, in my opinion, have a much more vested interest in privacy and security today. If we look at Apple [0][1] - they've invested significantly in wrapping their brand around it. To say that "99% of consumers are not HN tech gurus and really don't care" seems, to me, an unfounded perspective. Again, in my opinion - but factually we have a lot of evidence to support the contrary. [0] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-tied-to-new-privacy-website-suggesting-future-security-marketing/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-tied-to-new-privacy-website-...
alharith 6y ago
> then that was before a lot of the strong privacy and encryption conversations were being had in the larger audience of consumers That is an extremely. weak defense. There were plenty of other companies taking user security seriously. Many of our encryption standards and security certifications in use today were created in the 90s and 00s.

SamWhited 7y ago

> Just to offer a counter point: this crisis feels mostly manufactured. Zoom is under a microscope that almost all other comm software would fail just as horribly, if not worse I fail to see why this matters; let's assume this is true and everything else is just as bad (and a lot of stuff is just as bad, so this may be a fair assumption): the answer is that they should be put under the microscope too and forced to clean up their act and stop lying to users or putting them at risk unnecessarily with bad development processes. The answer is not to just say "meh, everyone else is just as bad" and keep using Zoom.

simias 7y ago

I assumed the parent was talking about the COVID-19 crisis. Or is there a Zoom-related crisis I missed?

dmix 7y ago

Signal went under a microscope during a critical time (Snowden leaks) and not only succeeded but changed how everyone else was doing it or at least set a new bar. Which then proceeded to help hundreds of millions of people as apps like WhatsApp adopted their crypto.

holler 7y ago
yeah but how many non-tech minded people use or have heard of signal vs those who have used or heard of a zoom meeting?
- dmix 7y ago
  If major plays like WhtatsApp being capable of figuring it out and adopting it with hundreds of millions of users, then I fully believe any-sized company can where it won't kill their business model. It doesn't need to be a part of Zoom's business model to watch everything so there's no excuse not to. And after that people will stop bringing this up every time their brand is named.

tareqak 7y ago

If all other communication software will fail just as horribly under the same scrutiny, then it’s fine. With the quarantine, we definitely have the time to make something better.

kardos 7y ago

Expectations for security/privacy are higher now than in years past, Zoom is being evaluated with a 2020 lens.