7 ms·

Office 365 to support DANE and DNSSEC

5 points by amaccuish 7y ago

cryptonector 7y ago
This is truly momentous. This should be on the HN front page. This will help get Google and others to follow suit. With all the big players using DNSSEC and DANE, you can expect close to universal deployment, and that will be a game changer for Internet security. None of this would have happened without Viktor Dukhovni's incredible effort these past several years. He built a survey of DANE usage so as to find brokenness and get it fixed -- long-term brokenness would have caused the protocol to get abandoned. Once the big players have DANE support, them and everyone else will have huge incentive to monitor their own domains for breakage, which will make breakage a rarity.
- wglb 7y ago
  > With all the big players using DNSSEC and DANE Which are the big players that are currently using these in real-world actual deployments, as opposed to planned?
  - cryptonector 7y ago
    Even planned makes a difference. It sends a signal. And you know that various European governments are pushing for this. It's a matter of time.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      It's been 25 years and deployment is stuck at 1%, with virtually none of the major tech companies --- Microsoft included, since none of their zones are signed --- in that set. Microsoft cosponsored MTA-STS, the competing solution that doesn't use DNSSEC. I think you're right: Microsoft is doing this because European customers are demanding it. DNSSEC is moribund. It may be a quirky thing that companies in Europe do, but it isn't going anywhere elsewhere.
      - cryptonector 7y ago
        Microsoft announced that they will do this, not that they have done it. We'll see soon enough.
      - ietf-dane 7y ago
        A few recent DANE deployments: * infomaniak.ch - Swiss hosting provider * triodos.com - Bank in Spain * startupstack.tech - California hosting company * elbiahosting.sk - Slovak hosting company * isu.net.sa - Saudi research centre * statens-it.dk - Multiple Denmark government domains * startmail․com - Email provider in Germany * webreus.nl - hosting provider in the Netherlands * mailfence.com - Email provider in Belgium * velocir.co.uk - UK hosting and email provider In the last 90 days 108k new domains via 828 new providers, plus more domains via existing providers, now 1.88 million domains total. Microsoft has a titanic-sized infrastructure to turn around, so it won't happen overnight, but they and more will deploy as time marches on, and in the mean-time it is MTA-STS that's moribund...
        tptacek 7y ago
        Well. As goes elbiahosting.sk, so goes the Internet.
        ietf-dane 7y ago
        Yes, precisely, they and many, many others. The Internet I want to nurture is the decentralized Internet that links millions of independent actors, rather than the walled-garden Internet of 3 cloud platforms. I am of course pleased to see also the big players supporting open technologies. Here's a longer list of providers MX-hosting over 1k domains for customers with DNSSEC and DANE: 1033606 one.com 136407 transip.nl 100893 domeneshop.no 88794 loopia.se 72402 infomaniak.ch 38424 active24.com 30972 vevida.com 30549 antagonist.nl 27595 webreus.nl 26928 web4u.cz 26122 zxcs.nl 25001 udmedia.de 17389 bhosted.nl 15135 flexfilter.nl 13863 onebit.cz 9925 protonmail.ch 5798 netzone.ch 5597 previder.nl 5461 soverin.net 5058 zonemx.eu 4803 mailplatform.eu 3406 ips.nl 3072 interconnect.nl 2568 provalue.nl 2084 nederhost.nl 1932 spamcluster.nl 1836 mailbox.org 1673 nmugroup.com 1445 yourdomainprovider.net 1348 mijnspamfilter.nl 1326 hi7.de 1297 tutanota.de 1255 spamfilterserver.com 1219 surfmailfilter.nl 1151 prolocation.net 1009 xcellerate.nl It is more difficult to measure the scale of deployments by individual domains with large numbers of users, as the numbers are not apparent in DNS, but these include comcast.net, web.de, gmx.de, ... The inertia to overcome is enormous, and the deployment time scale will be comparable to IPv6, which is just starting to gain ground after 3 decades. No need to tighten your seatbelt, it's a long ride, but adoption is growing and even accelerating. It would be nice and not too surprising, to get from the current ~2.5% (11 million signed domains out of ~400 million overall) to >5% in the next few years.
tptacek 7y ago
Previously. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22805730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22805730

5 points by amaccuish 7y ago

This is truly momentous. This should be on the HN front page. This will help get Google and others to follow suit. With all the big players using DNSSEC and DANE, you can expect close to universal deployment, and that will be a game changer for Internet security. None of this would have happened without Viktor Dukhovni's incredible effort these past several years. He built a survey of DANE usage so as to find brokenness and get it fixed -- long-term brokenness would have caused the protocol to get abandoned. Once the big players have DANE support, them and everyone else will have huge incentive to monitor their own domains for breakage, which will make breakage a rarity.

wglb 7y ago
> With all the big players using DNSSEC and DANE Which are the big players that are currently using these in real-world actual deployments, as opposed to planned?
- cryptonector 7y ago
  Even planned makes a difference. It sends a signal. And you know that various European governments are pushing for this. It's a matter of time.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    It's been 25 years and deployment is stuck at 1%, with virtually none of the major tech companies --- Microsoft included, since none of their zones are signed --- in that set. Microsoft cosponsored MTA-STS, the competing solution that doesn't use DNSSEC. I think you're right: Microsoft is doing this because European customers are demanding it. DNSSEC is moribund. It may be a quirky thing that companies in Europe do, but it isn't going anywhere elsewhere.
    - cryptonector 7y ago
      Microsoft announced that they will do this, not that they have done it. We'll see soon enough.
    - ietf-dane 7y ago
      A few recent DANE deployments: * infomaniak.ch - Swiss hosting provider * triodos.com - Bank in Spain * startupstack.tech - California hosting company * elbiahosting.sk - Slovak hosting company * isu.net.sa - Saudi research centre * statens-it.dk - Multiple Denmark government domains * startmail․com - Email provider in Germany * webreus.nl - hosting provider in the Netherlands * mailfence.com - Email provider in Belgium * velocir.co.uk - UK hosting and email provider In the last 90 days 108k new domains via 828 new providers, plus more domains via existing providers, now 1.88 million domains total. Microsoft has a titanic-sized infrastructure to turn around, so it won't happen overnight, but they and more will deploy as time marches on, and in the mean-time it is MTA-STS that's moribund...
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Well. As goes elbiahosting.sk, so goes the Internet.
        ietf-dane 7y ago
        Yes, precisely, they and many, many others. The Internet I want to nurture is the decentralized Internet that links millions of independent actors, rather than the walled-garden Internet of 3 cloud platforms. I am of course pleased to see also the big players supporting open technologies. Here's a longer list of providers MX-hosting over 1k domains for customers with DNSSEC and DANE: 1033606 one.com 136407 transip.nl 100893 domeneshop.no 88794 loopia.se 72402 infomaniak.ch 38424 active24.com 30972 vevida.com 30549 antagonist.nl 27595 webreus.nl 26928 web4u.cz 26122 zxcs.nl 25001 udmedia.de 17389 bhosted.nl 15135 flexfilter.nl 13863 onebit.cz 9925 protonmail.ch 5798 netzone.ch 5597 previder.nl 5461 soverin.net 5058 zonemx.eu 4803 mailplatform.eu 3406 ips.nl 3072 interconnect.nl 2568 provalue.nl 2084 nederhost.nl 1932 spamcluster.nl 1836 mailbox.org 1673 nmugroup.com 1445 yourdomainprovider.net 1348 mijnspamfilter.nl 1326 hi7.de 1297 tutanota.de 1255 spamfilterserver.com 1219 surfmailfilter.nl 1151 prolocation.net 1009 xcellerate.nl It is more difficult to measure the scale of deployments by individual domains with large numbers of users, as the numbers are not apparent in DNS, but these include comcast.net, web.de, gmx.de, ... The inertia to overcome is enormous, and the deployment time scale will be comparable to IPv6, which is just starting to gain ground after 3 decades. No need to tighten your seatbelt, it's a long ride, but adoption is growing and even accelerating. It would be nice and not too surprising, to get from the current ~2.5% (11 million signed domains out of ~400 million overall) to >5% in the next few years.

tptacek 7y ago

Previously. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22805730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22805730