4 ms·

How long can the federal government be actively opposed to the interests of states before the whole thing crumbles? At some point the conflict would manifest it

How long can the federal government be actively opposed to the interests of states before the whole thing crumbles? At some point the conflict would manifest itself as a reduced quality of life I'd think?

CalRobert 7y ago
I worry my comment wasn't substantive, but in this case I refer specifically to confiscation of _medical supplies_ during a _pandemic_. It disincentivizes being a well prepared or resourceful organization if your stuff will get taken anyway. When do those disincentives break the whole system?
- op03 7y ago
  You have to just remind yourself what signals come in during a crisis (esp new kinds people aren't trained for) takes a while to make sense off. Nothing will make sense initially. Even for decision makers up and down the hierarchy. Most of the time people, even responsible people with good intent, have no clue what the right move is. But they have to make moves for all kinds of reasons. And problems compound. It takes time for mistakes to surface and unwind things. So give it time.
  - op00to 7y ago
    Fuck that. The federal government is stealing PPE from NYC to “own the libs”. This is not ok.
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    " people, even responsible people with good intent" True, but also true for irresponsible people with malicious intent, and those benefit massively from confusion and opacity.
  - true_religion 7y ago
    Assuming good intent only works if you trust the top decision makers to foster that kind of organizational culture. Unfortunately, in the US, we have a president who has burned most of his bridges, and has lost a lot of “benefit of the doubt”. And remember is not a dual choice between malice and good. The administration could simply be incompetent, obsessed with control, and afraid to look weak by having states take decisions on their own.
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      > The administration could simply be incompetent, obsessed with control, and afraid to look weak by having states take decisions on their own. And they could have a bigger picture of happenings that you or I do not.
      - Brian_K_White 7y ago
        They have not so far since day one. It is irrational and highly suspect to pick today to start claiming there is any doubt to grant any benefit of.
        Fjolsvith 7y ago
        I feel the same way about your position.
awaythrower 7y ago
That's the intended point.. mismanagement to form a self-fulfilling prophecy to justify and destroy government to allow more corruption and theft by the 1%; the libertarian wet dream.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  I'm not a libertarian, but "federal seizure of goods" isn't a particularly libertarian idea.
  - awaythrower 7y ago
    Of course not if limited to strict, inflexible ideological dogma, but the net effect serves the "higher" goal via realpolitik: Make government the "enemy" to be destroyed like how Reagan believed or like how libertarians wish
    - CalRobert 7y ago
      True, though ironic in this case since "vote for us because the government is broken (btw we broke it)" is an odd look. Of course, it's also possible that government already is broken, they did win, and now they are reaping the rewards of corruption. I tend to think this is pretty likely.

CalRobert 7y ago

I worry my comment wasn't substantive, but in this case I refer specifically to confiscation of _medical supplies_ during a _pandemic_. It disincentivizes being a well prepared or resourceful organization if your stuff will get taken anyway. When do those disincentives break the whole system?

op03 7y ago
You have to just remind yourself what signals come in during a crisis (esp new kinds people aren't trained for) takes a while to make sense off. Nothing will make sense initially. Even for decision makers up and down the hierarchy. Most of the time people, even responsible people with good intent, have no clue what the right move is. But they have to make moves for all kinds of reasons. And problems compound. It takes time for mistakes to surface and unwind things. So give it time.
- op00to 7y ago
  Fuck that. The federal government is stealing PPE from NYC to “own the libs”. This is not ok.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  " people, even responsible people with good intent" True, but also true for irresponsible people with malicious intent, and those benefit massively from confusion and opacity.
- true_religion 7y ago
  Assuming good intent only works if you trust the top decision makers to foster that kind of organizational culture. Unfortunately, in the US, we have a president who has burned most of his bridges, and has lost a lot of “benefit of the doubt”. And remember is not a dual choice between malice and good. The administration could simply be incompetent, obsessed with control, and afraid to look weak by having states take decisions on their own.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    > The administration could simply be incompetent, obsessed with control, and afraid to look weak by having states take decisions on their own. And they could have a bigger picture of happenings that you or I do not.
    - Brian_K_White 7y ago
      They have not so far since day one. It is irrational and highly suspect to pick today to start claiming there is any doubt to grant any benefit of.
      - Fjolsvith 7y ago
        I feel the same way about your position.

awaythrower 7y ago

That's the intended point.. mismanagement to form a self-fulfilling prophecy to justify and destroy government to allow more corruption and theft by the 1%; the libertarian wet dream.

CalRobert 7y ago
I'm not a libertarian, but "federal seizure of goods" isn't a particularly libertarian idea.
- awaythrower 7y ago
  Of course not if limited to strict, inflexible ideological dogma, but the net effect serves the "higher" goal via realpolitik: Make government the "enemy" to be destroyed like how Reagan believed or like how libertarians wish
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    True, though ironic in this case since "vote for us because the government is broken (btw we broke it)" is an odd look. Of course, it's also possible that government already is broken, they did win, and now they are reaping the rewards of corruption. I tend to think this is pretty likely.