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This is taken out of context somewhat, so I'll offer it just to try to keep things balanced. This appears to come from Walter Isaacson biography on Einstein. At

This is taken out of context somewhat, so I'll offer it just to try to keep things balanced. This appears to come from Walter Isaacson biography on Einstein. At the time, Einstein's first marriage had deteriorated and they were already living apart. This was an offer to move back in together for the sake of their children. His wife didn't accept these terms and they divorced in 1919. Also we're talking about 100 years ago in Berlin. It's a bit perilous to judge their relationship by our modern standards. I would say things have changed vastly for the better. I shudder to think how people in 100 years would view my lifestyle.

watwut 7y ago
Nah, it was not normal by standards of 100 years ago either. Edit: the "it was different time" is popular retort, but it rarely takes into account actual customs and realities of the time back. People just tend to assume that whatever someone else criticizes was unopposed standard back at the time, because it would feel good and was convenient. Societies back at time were as complicated as ours, often had strong standards of behavior - which just like in ours was often not followed in practice or lead to problems. They were not "just like us except worst". Case in point, even if intra-family violence was way more common, both against kids (I don't mean light spanking I mean actual sever abuse) and women, it was criticized and seen as wrong too (and as such meant to be in-family secret).
- BlargMcLarg 7y ago
  Its in bad taste, but I don't get the downvotes in this thread. Are people eager to hold an ego measuring contest against our ancestors? The only things I know from my own experience: people resort to violence more quickly when stressed, and when its easier to hide. This doesn't really seem to have changed over the years. Its just easier to suppress yourself and others with the abundance of toys, media and tools available today, and its easier for people to find out you're mistreating others. Heck, if the current crisis is showing anything, its how tons of families can't stand being together for a long time, from complaining about kids to complaining having to share your room with your spouse. Culture has changed, but we're still the same animals we were 100 years ago. Similarly, when it comes to emotions and social skills, what made a good spouse back then still makes a good spouse today. Treating each other like people, being supportive, allowing the other to excel instead of setting them up for failure, stimulating joy instead of frustration and sadness. The same goes for being a good parent, in supporting your children and stimulating positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement. Sure, our understanding on an academic level has increased, but that doesn't explain the similarities between then and now. And frankly, I don't need a comparison between "the worst then" and "the worst now" to realize you should do your best for someone you share your life with a majority of the time. That 'best' has barely changed.
throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
Not sure I agree. There were a couple of books I picked up as presents, they were reprints of a book ~100 years old, called something like 'advice for husbands' and 'advice for wives', something like that. They were ~2/3rds the same advice, and of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and frankly most if it was surprisingly sensible and relevant today (some still has the assumption that the man is in the superior position, and some is a bit painful, but perhaps not as much as you'd think). OK, found it https://raffertysrules.blog/2011/04/18/donts-for-husbands-donts-for-wives-by-blanche-ebbutt/ https://raffertysrules.blog/2011/04/18/donts-for-husbands-do... Extract, make of it what you will: Advice for Wives Don’t interpret too literally the ‘obey’ of the Marriage Service. Your husband has no right to control your individuality. Don’t let your husband feel that you are a ‘dear little woman’, but no good intellectually. If you find yourself getting stale, wake up your brain. Don’t keep your sweetest smiles and your best manners for outsiders; let your husband come first. Don’t grumble because his idea of work differs from yours. If he works hard at anything, let him do it his own way, and be satisfied. Don’t refuse to see your husband’s jokes. They may be pretty poor ones, but it won’t hurt you to smile at them. Don’t allow yourself to get into the habit of dressing carelessly when there is ‘only’ your husband to see you. Depend upon it he has no use for faded tea-gowns and badly dressed hair, and he abhors the sight of curling pins as much as other men do. He is a man after all, and if his wife does not take the trouble to charm him, there are plenty of other women who will. [Ouch!] Advice for Husbands Don’t refuse to get up and investigate in the night if your wife hears an unusual noise, or fancies she smells fire or escaping gas. She will be afraid of shaming you by getting up herself, and will lie awake working herself into a fever. This may be illogical, but it’s true. Don’t be surprised, or annoyed, or disappointed, to find, after treating your wife for years as a feather-brain, that you have made her one, and that she fails to rise to the occasion when you need her help. Don’t belittle your wife before visitors. You may think it a joke to speak of her little foibles, but she will not easily forgive you. Don’t refuse your wife’s overtures when next you meet if you have unfortunately had a bit of a breeze. Remember it costs her something to make them, and if you weren’t a bit of a pig, you would save her the embarrassment by making them yourself. Don’t chide your wife in public, whatever you may feel it necessary to do in private. She will not easily forgive you for having witnesses to her discomfiture. Don’t call your wife a coward because she is afraid of a spider. Probably in a case of real danger she would prove to be quite as brave as you.

watwut 7y ago

Nah, it was not normal by standards of 100 years ago either. Edit: the "it was different time" is popular retort, but it rarely takes into account actual customs and realities of the time back. People just tend to assume that whatever someone else criticizes was unopposed standard back at the time, because it would feel good and was convenient. Societies back at time were as complicated as ours, often had strong standards of behavior - which just like in ours was often not followed in practice or lead to problems. They were not "just like us except worst". Case in point, even if intra-family violence was way more common, both against kids (I don't mean light spanking I mean actual sever abuse) and women, it was criticized and seen as wrong too (and as such meant to be in-family secret).

BlargMcLarg 7y ago
Its in bad taste, but I don't get the downvotes in this thread. Are people eager to hold an ego measuring contest against our ancestors? The only things I know from my own experience: people resort to violence more quickly when stressed, and when its easier to hide. This doesn't really seem to have changed over the years. Its just easier to suppress yourself and others with the abundance of toys, media and tools available today, and its easier for people to find out you're mistreating others. Heck, if the current crisis is showing anything, its how tons of families can't stand being together for a long time, from complaining about kids to complaining having to share your room with your spouse. Culture has changed, but we're still the same animals we were 100 years ago. Similarly, when it comes to emotions and social skills, what made a good spouse back then still makes a good spouse today. Treating each other like people, being supportive, allowing the other to excel instead of setting them up for failure, stimulating joy instead of frustration and sadness. The same goes for being a good parent, in supporting your children and stimulating positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement. Sure, our understanding on an academic level has increased, but that doesn't explain the similarities between then and now. And frankly, I don't need a comparison between "the worst then" and "the worst now" to realize you should do your best for someone you share your life with a majority of the time. That 'best' has barely changed.

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago

Not sure I agree. There were a couple of books I picked up as presents, they were reprints of a book ~100 years old, called something like 'advice for husbands' and 'advice for wives', something like that. They were ~2/3rds the same advice, and of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and frankly most if it was surprisingly sensible and relevant today (some still has the assumption that the man is in the superior position, and some is a bit painful, but perhaps not as much as you'd think). OK, found it https://raffertysrules.blog/2011/04/18/donts-for-husbands-donts-for-wives-by-blanche-ebbutt/ https://raffertysrules.blog/2011/04/18/donts-for-husbands-do... Extract, make of it what you will: Advice for Wives Don’t interpret too literally the ‘obey’ of the Marriage Service. Your husband has no right to control your individuality. Don’t let your husband feel that you are a ‘dear little woman’, but no good intellectually. If you find yourself getting stale, wake up your brain. Don’t keep your sweetest smiles and your best manners for outsiders; let your husband come first. Don’t grumble because his idea of work differs from yours. If he works hard at anything, let him do it his own way, and be satisfied. Don’t refuse to see your husband’s jokes. They may be pretty poor ones, but it won’t hurt you to smile at them. Don’t allow yourself to get into the habit of dressing carelessly when there is ‘only’ your husband to see you. Depend upon it he has no use for faded tea-gowns and badly dressed hair, and he abhors the sight of curling pins as much as other men do. He is a man after all, and if his wife does not take the trouble to charm him, there are plenty of other women who will. [Ouch!] Advice for Husbands Don’t refuse to get up and investigate in the night if your wife hears an unusual noise, or fancies she smells fire or escaping gas. She will be afraid of shaming you by getting up herself, and will lie awake working herself into a fever. This may be illogical, but it’s true. Don’t be surprised, or annoyed, or disappointed, to find, after treating your wife for years as a feather-brain, that you have made her one, and that she fails to rise to the occasion when you need her help. Don’t belittle your wife before visitors. You may think it a joke to speak of her little foibles, but she will not easily forgive you. Don’t refuse your wife’s overtures when next you meet if you have unfortunately had a bit of a breeze. Remember it costs her something to make them, and if you weren’t a bit of a pig, you would save her the embarrassment by making them yourself. Don’t chide your wife in public, whatever you may feel it necessary to do in private. She will not easily forgive you for having witnesses to her discomfiture. Don’t call your wife a coward because she is afraid of a spider. Probably in a case of real danger she would prove to be quite as brave as you.