5 ms·

We Have Become a Police State, and None of Us Should Be Okay with That

29 points by plasticchris 7y ago

dmh2000 7y ago
So anyone who wants the federal government to take over direct action on the coronavirus situation should think twice about having a federal police force running things.
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago
  It's like nothing at all was learned from the War on Terror
  - ironic_ali 7y ago
    Are there more than a few policians that did learn from it?
yongjik 7y ago
So cops shut down a well-intentioned but ultimately needless parade during days of chaos and confusion about what are allowed and what aren't, and we're living in a police state because of that. Sheesh. Has the author seen an actual police state? As long as Americans see the police force as an evil to be starved, instead of a social necessity to be filled with capable people with proper training, the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. The cycle continues.
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  What if the police were wrong here though? What if it violated our right to assembly? Even if it was a needless it's a massive abuse of power and a constitutional violation. Virus or not civil liberties still exist as provided by the Constitution.
  - yongjik 7y ago
    > What if the police were wrong here though? If the police is to do their job, they will be wrong sometimes. The only way to make sure that they're never wrong is to keep them from doing anything. Americans should stop acting like a pointy-haired boss running over sysadmins. It's getting ridiculous. Also, if you want to protest police brutality there are legitimate cases all around the country. You don't need to sell made-up outrage.
    - dntbnmpls 7y ago
      > Americans should stop acting like a pointy-haired boss running over sysadmins. It's getting ridiculous. If you aren't american, why do you care? > Also, if you want to protest police brutality there are legitimate cases all around the country. Police state isn't about brutality. It's about control. Like where you can go, when you can go, how you should exist. It's pretty much a state of mind. Where the population, out of fear, will accept any restrictions without pushback. > You don't need to sell made-up outrage. Physical restriction isn't "made-up" outrage. A single case of police brutality is horrible but not the end of the world. Police state is systematic. Also, people can be upset at both. Not sure what your angle is here. It's strange how you relentless defend authority and cavalierly dismiss the issues of police state.
    - nickthemagicman 7y ago
      Sure they can be wrong but they need to be held accountable and their failures highlighted when they are.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    > What if the police were wrong here though? File a lawsuit against them and see how far you get. I'm sure they are acting lawfully.
    - nickthemagicman 7y ago
      File a lawsuit? The courts are closed in many places right now so lawsuits aren't possible. Hence the police can act with no reprisal. The ACLU will probably have a field day after this is over.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > Has the author seen an actual police state? Have you? It usually starts with people excusing and defending police state behavior. And usually happens during "days of chaos and confusion". > As long as Americans see the police force as an evil to be starved We see the police, like government/etc, as necessary evils. > instead of a social necessity to be filled with capable people with proper training, the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. What? Police are already well funded. Some police department are funded better than armies. > The cycle continues. Hopefully as it is the only way to maintain a free and civil society. The state naturally tends toward tyranny and a free people naturally tend toward anarchy. If the "cycle" doesn't exist, it means we are living in a tyranny or anarchy.
  - yongjik 7y ago
    > > Has the author seen an actual police state? > Have you? Yes. > It usually starts with people excusing and defending police state behavior. I can only speak for my own country, but it started with America cutting a deal with the Soviet Union, several prominent leaders getting assassinated during partisan conflicts, and America picking what they imagined was a safe bet which turned out to be a human butcher. (Well, to be fair, it wasn't like the US deliberately chose a bad guy - they picked someone with a Princeton PhD.) But I can tell you how a country gets out of police state. It doesn't involve people doing whatever they want because it's their freedom. It involves people sacrificing their own freedom for the greater good, standing in front of total strangers facing the police, and saying "I don't know them, but they are my brothers. If you want to shoot them, you will have to shoot me first." In other words, if your "police state behavior" is telling people to go home during an ongoing pandemic, it belongs to "not even wrong" category. BTW, I don't believe the police are well funded in the US in general. Maybe in some sector. (And the funding could definitely become smarter.) But when residents of a major city (SF) have to avoid used needles on the street, it seems pretty clear to me that there aren't enough police to serve these people. (Well, maybe there are enough police officers but they're all deployed in doing something useless - which would mean we can't afford to hire competent managers.)
    - dntbnmpls 7y ago
- EmoSupportEmu 7y ago
  > the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. The cycle continues More funding turns into more MWRAPS, not better oversight.
luxuryballs 7y ago
I don’t expect it’s the activities themselves being likely to spread covid or not that is the issue here. By driving people are taking the risk of a fender bender or other situation like running out of gas where you may require help in the form of contact with others. It’s risk aversion. Not sure I agree with the shutdown but I get it.
david_w 7y ago
No, no we haven't. A police state is a one-party state whose domination is maintained through the application of despotic force against the civilian population. We, on the other hand, are experiencing a once-in-a-century, world-wide, corona virus pandemic with a mortality rate at least 10x the normal rate of corona viruses and which no one has immunity to because it just recently jumped species. Since the vast majority of ultimate victims of this disease are the old and the infirm, we are undetaking a collective, other-sparing, selfless plan of action. No one is alarmed by this action. It says absolutely nothing about our form of government and.what it says about our national character is inspirational and affirming. See the difference?

29 points by plasticchris 7y ago

dmh2000 7y ago

So anyone who wants the federal government to take over direct action on the coronavirus situation should think twice about having a federal police force running things.

xkcd-sucks 7y ago
It's like nothing at all was learned from the War on Terror
- ironic_ali 7y ago
  Are there more than a few policians that did learn from it?

yongjik 7y ago

So cops shut down a well-intentioned but ultimately needless parade during days of chaos and confusion about what are allowed and what aren't, and we're living in a police state because of that. Sheesh. Has the author seen an actual police state? As long as Americans see the police force as an evil to be starved, instead of a social necessity to be filled with capable people with proper training, the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. The cycle continues.

nickthemagicman 7y ago
What if the police were wrong here though? What if it violated our right to assembly? Even if it was a needless it's a massive abuse of power and a constitutional violation. Virus or not civil liberties still exist as provided by the Constitution.
- yongjik 7y ago
  > What if the police were wrong here though? If the police is to do their job, they will be wrong sometimes. The only way to make sure that they're never wrong is to keep them from doing anything. Americans should stop acting like a pointy-haired boss running over sysadmins. It's getting ridiculous. Also, if you want to protest police brutality there are legitimate cases all around the country. You don't need to sell made-up outrage.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > Americans should stop acting like a pointy-haired boss running over sysadmins. It's getting ridiculous. If you aren't american, why do you care? > Also, if you want to protest police brutality there are legitimate cases all around the country. Police state isn't about brutality. It's about control. Like where you can go, when you can go, how you should exist. It's pretty much a state of mind. Where the population, out of fear, will accept any restrictions without pushback. > You don't need to sell made-up outrage. Physical restriction isn't "made-up" outrage. A single case of police brutality is horrible but not the end of the world. Police state is systematic. Also, people can be upset at both. Not sure what your angle is here. It's strange how you relentless defend authority and cavalierly dismiss the issues of police state.
  - nickthemagicman 7y ago
    Sure they can be wrong but they need to be held accountable and their failures highlighted when they are.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  > What if the police were wrong here though? File a lawsuit against them and see how far you get. I'm sure they are acting lawfully.
  - nickthemagicman 7y ago
    File a lawsuit? The courts are closed in many places right now so lawsuits aren't possible. Hence the police can act with no reprisal. The ACLU will probably have a field day after this is over.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Has the author seen an actual police state? Have you? It usually starts with people excusing and defending police state behavior. And usually happens during "days of chaos and confusion". > As long as Americans see the police force as an evil to be starved We see the police, like government/etc, as necessary evils. > instead of a social necessity to be filled with capable people with proper training, the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. What? Police are already well funded. Some police department are funded better than armies. > The cycle continues. Hopefully as it is the only way to maintain a free and civil society. The state naturally tends toward tyranny and a free people naturally tend toward anarchy. If the "cycle" doesn't exist, it means we are living in a tyranny or anarchy.
- yongjik 7y ago
  > > Has the author seen an actual police state? > Have you? Yes. > It usually starts with people excusing and defending police state behavior. I can only speak for my own country, but it started with America cutting a deal with the Soviet Union, several prominent leaders getting assassinated during partisan conflicts, and America picking what they imagined was a safe bet which turned out to be a human butcher. (Well, to be fair, it wasn't like the US deliberately chose a bad guy - they picked someone with a Princeton PhD.) But I can tell you how a country gets out of police state. It doesn't involve people doing whatever they want because it's their freedom. It involves people sacrificing their own freedom for the greater good, standing in front of total strangers facing the police, and saying "I don't know them, but they are my brothers. If you want to shoot them, you will have to shoot me first." In other words, if your "police state behavior" is telling people to go home during an ongoing pandemic, it belongs to "not even wrong" category. BTW, I don't believe the police are well funded in the US in general. Maybe in some sector. (And the funding could definitely become smarter.) But when residents of a major city (SF) have to avoid used needles on the street, it seems pretty clear to me that there aren't enough police to serve these people. (Well, maybe there are enough police officers but they're all deployed in doing something useless - which would mean we can't afford to hire competent managers.)
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
EmoSupportEmu 7y ago
> the police will never get the funding or oversight needed for improvement. The cycle continues More funding turns into more MWRAPS, not better oversight.

luxuryballs 7y ago

I don’t expect it’s the activities themselves being likely to spread covid or not that is the issue here. By driving people are taking the risk of a fender bender or other situation like running out of gas where you may require help in the form of contact with others. It’s risk aversion. Not sure I agree with the shutdown but I get it.

david_w 7y ago

No, no we haven't. A police state is a one-party state whose domination is maintained through the application of despotic force against the civilian population. We, on the other hand, are experiencing a once-in-a-century, world-wide, corona virus pandemic with a mortality rate at least 10x the normal rate of corona viruses and which no one has immunity to because it just recently jumped species. Since the vast majority of ultimate victims of this disease are the old and the infirm, we are undetaking a collective, other-sparing, selfless plan of action. No one is alarmed by this action. It says absolutely nothing about our form of government and.what it says about our national character is inspirational and affirming. See the difference?