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Besides the US and UK, NATO deaths in Afghanistan were on par with training exercises. But that's not what the parent comment was referring to. Almost every c

Besides the US and UK, NATO deaths in Afghanistan were on par with training exercises. But that's not what the parent comment was referring to. Almost every country in the world was taking advantage of the US pre-Trump. As he renegotiates to even the playing field, he is accused of "tanking US international relations". Pure political BS and an old argument that has mostly been disproven by now.

mschuster91 7y ago
> Almost every country in the world was taking advantage of the US pre-Trump Sorry what? That sounds like the Trumpian logic "If you don't pay me money, I'll retract my troops". Of course the US pays for the troops and keeping a global world order led by the US - but it gets something in return: free markets to sell goods and services to, stability (i.e. the cost of stationing troops or foreign aid is smaller than the cost that would be incurred in a war) and political influence (when other countries need help, they turn to the US, and when there is something happening that requires guidance/coordination, the other countries will follow whatever the US does). Especially the latter cannot be quantified in monetary value at all which is the reason why a pure "numbers comparison" supports what Trump and the right wing are saying is theoretically true, but has nothing to do with reality. The result of the international relations being tanked are especially evident in current times - the rest of the world does their own stuff instead of mirroring what the US is doing. Not just in regard to coronavirus, but also in terms of Russia/China trade policy, Iran policy, climate protection... this is the real, tangible influence the US has lost over time. Something like Europe devising clever workaround schemes to continue trading with Iran to evade US sanctions would have been unthinkable during the Obama terms, or the US fighting out the trade war with China on their own without Europe assisting, or all other governments except Brazil and the US cooperating with each other on the Paris Accords, with Europe actually even recruiting US governors and mayors to the cause. To add insult to injury: to fix this, to repair international relations where trust has been destroyed and eroded by Bush (lying about Iraq WMDs) and then Trump... this is going to cost a lot more money than the US could ever have saved.

mschuster91 7y ago

> Almost every country in the world was taking advantage of the US pre-Trump Sorry what? That sounds like the Trumpian logic "If you don't pay me money, I'll retract my troops". Of course the US pays for the troops and keeping a global world order led by the US - but it gets something in return: free markets to sell goods and services to, stability (i.e. the cost of stationing troops or foreign aid is smaller than the cost that would be incurred in a war) and political influence (when other countries need help, they turn to the US, and when there is something happening that requires guidance/coordination, the other countries will follow whatever the US does). Especially the latter cannot be quantified in monetary value at all which is the reason why a pure "numbers comparison" supports what Trump and the right wing are saying is theoretically true, but has nothing to do with reality. The result of the international relations being tanked are especially evident in current times - the rest of the world does their own stuff instead of mirroring what the US is doing. Not just in regard to coronavirus, but also in terms of Russia/China trade policy, Iran policy, climate protection... this is the real, tangible influence the US has lost over time. Something like Europe devising clever workaround schemes to continue trading with Iran to evade US sanctions would have been unthinkable during the Obama terms, or the US fighting out the trade war with China on their own without Europe assisting, or all other governments except Brazil and the US cooperating with each other on the Paris Accords, with Europe actually even recruiting US governors and mayors to the cause. To add insult to injury: to fix this, to repair international relations where trust has been destroyed and eroded by Bush (lying about Iraq WMDs) and then Trump... this is going to cost a lot more money than the US could ever have saved.