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I’m sad that even though this unique design was done and put online for anyone to print by Prusa, he is hardly mentioned now. On top of that, the design is alre

by klohto 7y ago

I’m sad that even though this unique design was done and put online for anyone to print by Prusa, he is hardly mentioned now. On top of that, the design is already commercialized. EDIT: I see now that the design is different, you’re right

gowld 7y ago
What do you mean by: > On top of that, the design is already commercialized.
- klohto 7y ago
  I mean that if you check Amazon, companies are making money of it. It’s great that it’s getting out just not so great that it’s selling with fat margin on top.
  - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
    I get what you are saying, but there have to be incentives for manufacturers to start making them. A fat margin at first will do that. If it's an open design, manufacturing competition will swiftly reduce that fat margin.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    What's stopping anyone from printing and selling them at parity or at a loss? It's not like you can print out that Apple page on your ink jet printer and wear it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - smabie 7y ago
    If they weren't making money off of it, they wouldn't sell it. Price gouging is exactly what is needed in a crisis. Once the demand signals become incorporated in the price, more and more companies will start making it.
infecto 7y ago
Why sad? This is a massive global issue that we have not experienced in modern times. Who cares about attribution. Apple has donated a bunch of masks? Who cares its just a face mask and this design is different then what Prusa is printing. As long as lives are being saved thats all that matters right?
- klohto 7y ago
  It’s not like if you mention him you lose bunch of time and people die. The design should go out by any means possible, but is one line of attribution so bad?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - infecto 7y ago
    Its not even an exact copy of his design. /thread
randyrand 7y ago
Looking at the pursa video, its a different design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA
mkolodny 7y ago
I'd guess this is the face shield you're referring to: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25857-prusa-face-shield https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25857-prusa-face-shield It's awesome that Prusa designed and open sourced face shields. Apple seems to have improved on those designs - to me, that's exactly the point of open source.
- duskwuff 7y ago
  > Apple seems to have improved on those designs I'm not sure the Apple design was influenced by Prusa at all. The curved plastic is basically universal, and was present in face shields long before the coronavirus crisis. Some face shields used a rigid molded plastic shield, but that's obviously much harder to manufacture. If the shield is made of flexible plastic, something is clearly needed to tension it; the Prusa design used a rigid printed component, and Apple used another flexible component.
endorphone 7y ago
How do you mean? This Apple design looks very different from any that I can find attributed to "Prusa" (not sure if that's a person or a company, but the company put out 3D print designs that are very different). And all of them, of course, copy shields that were out long before the current crisis. A lot of people were prototyping shields to satisfy a sudden and overwhelming demand, and with 3D printers it seemed like dozens of variations appeared overnight. I don't think attribution is a big concern.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  Prusa is both a person (joseph prusa) and the company he made (Prusa3d) that designs and manufactures 3d printers. You're right though that they're not the same, beyond what similarity the function brings.
mhb 7y ago
I was curious, so I looked at the Prusa design. The Apple design has enough additional cleverness that it's quite a stretch to call them the same. The main difference is that it doesn't require 3D printing which is obviously a deal-breaker for the quantity needed. By incorporating the clear plastic as a structural element, they eliminated a piece from the design. The bottom piece is also eliminated. Altogether more elegant and more useful than the Prusa design.
- systemvoltage 7y ago
  I wish media would stop tooting how amazing "3D Printing" is. It is just one of the ways of manufacturing. IMO, it is a poor way to do anything besides home hobby projects (there are a few medical exceptions). It takes 12+ hours to print anything useful. Yet media loves talking about 3D printing. For anyone who has worked in product design and manufacturing, it is one thing to be able to make a few prototypes (which is where 3D printing shines), and another challenge to make 5 million of those prototypes per week. It is monumentally difficult to produce anything in high volume. I wish the media would talk about many other amazing manufacturing technologies - injection molding (20 seconds a part!), die cast aluminium, water jet cutting, laser cutting, metal stamping, and machining. These are equally amazing technologies that make the world tick...yet 3D printing gets disproportionately amount of attention. Mold making alone is a topic of insane complexity and engineering challenges.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    > IMO, it is a poor way to do anything besides home hobby projects (there are a few medical exceptions). It's good for various sorts of low-volume production, particularly prototyping. But yes, the hype about 3d printing putting factories out of business is very silly.
    - systemvoltage 7y ago
      Yep, if a hospital has a couple of 3D printers donated to them, by all means, make something. I am mostly concerned with the coverage from the media. Here are a few articles: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/librarian-3d-printing-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/librarian-3d-printing-... https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-3d-printing-ventilator-capacity https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-3d-printing-vent... https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_b0723192-784b-11ea-ad6a-b396592a6299.html https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/art... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-3d-printing-volunt/3d-printers-forge-face-shields-for-fight-against-the-coronavirus-idUSKBN21L1EU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-3d-pri... https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/27/950240/3d-printing-coronavirus-covid-19-medical-supplies-devices/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/27/950240/3d-printi... And NYTimes: https://www.google.com/search?q=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavirus&oq=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavirus https://www.google.com/search?q=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavi... It's cool but I am cynical that media loves talking about 3D printing because it generates more viewership; no one wants to read an article "Decades old technology of injection molding is still the best way to make high volume parts during this pandemic".
nabla9 7y ago
I don't see how Prusa invented anything that apple uses. Besides, one is mass produced, other is 3d printed. Prusa: https://manual.prusa3d.com/Guide/How+to+assemble+the+Prusa+Face+Shield+-+RC1-RC2-RC3/1527 https://manual.prusa3d.com/Guide/How+to+assemble+the+Prusa+F... KSU: https://www.ajc.com/news/local/kennesaw-state-staff-members-create-printed-face-shields-for-hospitals/BfWOMeMLGTGuZkEOs76gtN/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/kennesaw-state-staff-members-...
blackguardx 7y ago
Can you sterilize a 3D print easily? The major downside to 3D prints is all the voids and pinholes the process creates, aside from material compatibility issues with sterilizers. This design is entirely die cut, which is incredibly fast. A machine could probably stamp out 10 of these in the time it takes to print one layer in a typical FDM printer.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > Can you sterilize a 3D print easily You can – depending on the material. The problem is keeping them sterile because, as you point out, there's gaps between layers. And there's wear on the material with most sterilization processes. Which doesn't really help with the end goal. Ideally these would be quickly discarded. > A machine could probably stamp out 10 of these in the time it takes to print one layer in a typical FDM printer An Apple machine, right? Have they shared their designs so that other manufacturing facilities can build them? If they did not... then you'll get the obsession with 3d printing.
  - blackguardx 7y ago
    Die cutter machines are expensive, but very common. Making the dies can be expensive, but it is routinely done all over the world. I agree that Apple should share the design as well as the tooling designs. I have a friend that started mass producing masks and open-sourced the design: https://whitelabelfaceshields.com https://whitelabelfaceshields.com
mikepurvis 7y ago
There was a community printing effort in Waterloo to make Prusa masks as well, which similarly was evolved for scaling reasons into a design that could be done entirely with laser cutting: https://www.canadianshieldppe.ca/pages/our-story https://www.canadianshieldppe.ca/pages/our-story
briandear 7y ago
When people start manufacturing and shipping a million a week, then perhaps the Prusa design would be worth mentioning.

by klohto 7y ago

gowld 7y ago

What do you mean by: > On top of that, the design is already commercialized.

klohto 7y ago
I mean that if you check Amazon, companies are making money of it. It’s great that it’s getting out just not so great that it’s selling with fat margin on top.
- TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
  I get what you are saying, but there have to be incentives for manufacturers to start making them. A fat margin at first will do that. If it's an open design, manufacturing competition will swiftly reduce that fat margin.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  What's stopping anyone from printing and selling them at parity or at a loss? It's not like you can print out that Apple page on your ink jet printer and wear it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- smabie 7y ago
  If they weren't making money off of it, they wouldn't sell it. Price gouging is exactly what is needed in a crisis. Once the demand signals become incorporated in the price, more and more companies will start making it.

infecto 7y ago

Why sad? This is a massive global issue that we have not experienced in modern times. Who cares about attribution. Apple has donated a bunch of masks? Who cares its just a face mask and this design is different then what Prusa is printing. As long as lives are being saved thats all that matters right?

klohto 7y ago
It’s not like if you mention him you lose bunch of time and people die. The design should go out by any means possible, but is one line of attribution so bad?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- infecto 7y ago
  Its not even an exact copy of his design. /thread

randyrand 7y ago

Looking at the pursa video, its a different design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA

mkolodny 7y ago

I'd guess this is the face shield you're referring to: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25857-prusa-face-shield https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25857-prusa-face-shield It's awesome that Prusa designed and open sourced face shields. Apple seems to have improved on those designs - to me, that's exactly the point of open source.

duskwuff 7y ago
> Apple seems to have improved on those designs I'm not sure the Apple design was influenced by Prusa at all. The curved plastic is basically universal, and was present in face shields long before the coronavirus crisis. Some face shields used a rigid molded plastic shield, but that's obviously much harder to manufacture. If the shield is made of flexible plastic, something is clearly needed to tension it; the Prusa design used a rigid printed component, and Apple used another flexible component.

endorphone 7y ago

How do you mean? This Apple design looks very different from any that I can find attributed to "Prusa" (not sure if that's a person or a company, but the company put out 3D print designs that are very different). And all of them, of course, copy shields that were out long before the current crisis. A lot of people were prototyping shields to satisfy a sudden and overwhelming demand, and with 3D printers it seemed like dozens of variations appeared overnight. I don't think attribution is a big concern.

LegitShady 7y ago
Prusa is both a person (joseph prusa) and the company he made (Prusa3d) that designs and manufactures 3d printers. You're right though that they're not the same, beyond what similarity the function brings.

mhb 7y ago

I was curious, so I looked at the Prusa design. The Apple design has enough additional cleverness that it's quite a stretch to call them the same. The main difference is that it doesn't require 3D printing which is obviously a deal-breaker for the quantity needed. By incorporating the clear plastic as a structural element, they eliminated a piece from the design. The bottom piece is also eliminated. Altogether more elegant and more useful than the Prusa design.

systemvoltage 7y ago
I wish media would stop tooting how amazing "3D Printing" is. It is just one of the ways of manufacturing. IMO, it is a poor way to do anything besides home hobby projects (there are a few medical exceptions). It takes 12+ hours to print anything useful. Yet media loves talking about 3D printing. For anyone who has worked in product design and manufacturing, it is one thing to be able to make a few prototypes (which is where 3D printing shines), and another challenge to make 5 million of those prototypes per week. It is monumentally difficult to produce anything in high volume. I wish the media would talk about many other amazing manufacturing technologies - injection molding (20 seconds a part!), die cast aluminium, water jet cutting, laser cutting, metal stamping, and machining. These are equally amazing technologies that make the world tick...yet 3D printing gets disproportionately amount of attention. Mold making alone is a topic of insane complexity and engineering challenges.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > IMO, it is a poor way to do anything besides home hobby projects (there are a few medical exceptions). It's good for various sorts of low-volume production, particularly prototyping. But yes, the hype about 3d printing putting factories out of business is very silly.
  - systemvoltage 7y ago
    Yep, if a hospital has a couple of 3D printers donated to them, by all means, make something. I am mostly concerned with the coverage from the media. Here are a few articles: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/librarian-3d-printing-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/librarian-3d-printing-... https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-3d-printing-ventilator-capacity https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-3d-printing-vent... https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_b0723192-784b-11ea-ad6a-b396592a6299.html https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/art... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-3d-printing-volunt/3d-printers-forge-face-shields-for-fight-against-the-coronavirus-idUSKBN21L1EU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-3d-pri... https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/27/950240/3d-printing-coronavirus-covid-19-medical-supplies-devices/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/27/950240/3d-printi... And NYTimes: https://www.google.com/search?q=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavirus&oq=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavirus https://www.google.com/search?q=nytimes+3d+printing+coronavi... It's cool but I am cynical that media loves talking about 3D printing because it generates more viewership; no one wants to read an article "Decades old technology of injection molding is still the best way to make high volume parts during this pandemic".

nabla9 7y ago

I don't see how Prusa invented anything that apple uses. Besides, one is mass produced, other is 3d printed. Prusa: https://manual.prusa3d.com/Guide/How+to+assemble+the+Prusa+Face+Shield+-+RC1-RC2-RC3/1527 https://manual.prusa3d.com/Guide/How+to+assemble+the+Prusa+F... KSU: https://www.ajc.com/news/local/kennesaw-state-staff-members-create-printed-face-shields-for-hospitals/BfWOMeMLGTGuZkEOs76gtN/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/kennesaw-state-staff-members-...

blackguardx 7y ago

Can you sterilize a 3D print easily? The major downside to 3D prints is all the voids and pinholes the process creates, aside from material compatibility issues with sterilizers. This design is entirely die cut, which is incredibly fast. A machine could probably stamp out 10 of these in the time it takes to print one layer in a typical FDM printer.

outworlder 7y ago
> Can you sterilize a 3D print easily You can – depending on the material. The problem is keeping them sterile because, as you point out, there's gaps between layers. And there's wear on the material with most sterilization processes. Which doesn't really help with the end goal. Ideally these would be quickly discarded. > A machine could probably stamp out 10 of these in the time it takes to print one layer in a typical FDM printer An Apple machine, right? Have they shared their designs so that other manufacturing facilities can build them? If they did not... then you'll get the obsession with 3d printing.
- blackguardx 7y ago
  Die cutter machines are expensive, but very common. Making the dies can be expensive, but it is routinely done all over the world. I agree that Apple should share the design as well as the tooling designs. I have a friend that started mass producing masks and open-sourced the design: https://whitelabelfaceshields.com https://whitelabelfaceshields.com

mikepurvis 7y ago

There was a community printing effort in Waterloo to make Prusa masks as well, which similarly was evolved for scaling reasons into a design that could be done entirely with laser cutting: https://www.canadianshieldppe.ca/pages/our-story https://www.canadianshieldppe.ca/pages/our-story

briandear 7y ago

When people start manufacturing and shipping a million a week, then perhaps the Prusa design would be worth mentioning.