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This doesn't sound all that different from a regular credit rating. As it relates to the financial troubles people are going through right now, while failing t

This doesn't sound all that different from a regular credit rating. As it relates to the financial troubles people are going through right now, while failing to pay April 1 rent is a data point, I think the uniqueness of the situation we're in will prove it not to be a particularly useful data point for landlords going forward. Any landlord that overweights that in their decision-making around who to rent to is probably doing so to their own longterm detriment.

anonymousab 7y ago
When there's a glut of people looking to rent, a seemingly endless supply, landlords can afford a lot of false negative rejections. This means that trying to single out the people who were able to pay during this epidemic - by simply filtering out anyone who didn't - can be a 'winning' strategy. Or at worst, a non losing one.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  And thanks to the economic situation and Airbnb apocalypse there's a glut of apartments to rent in Toronto now.
lmilcin 7y ago
The difference is financial companies are well regulated and keep the information securely. Oh crap... Equifax... nevermind.
thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago
In California, all mortgage companies have said they will not notify credit report agencies during this time. That makes this another example of protection for landowners with renters on their own, causing additional friction in the upward movement of poor and lower-middle class of America.
- mcguire 7y ago
  What?
  - thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago
    Sorry if my comment was confusing. What I was trying to say is that there are support systems in place for landowners, but not for renters. This makes it harder to breakout from being a renter to a landowner which creates a classist system. This is similar to paid higher education and possible even paid health care.
Mikeb85 7y ago
> This doesn't sound all that different from a regular credit rating. And credit agencies need to register with the government and are subject to a bunch of laws. The consumer also needs to give consent for a credit check.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  And (in most states) are entitled to an exact copy of the report that was delivered.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mcguire 7y ago
"Ries said Naborly seems to be acting as a consumer reporting agency, of which there are currently two licensed in Ontario: Equifax and TransUnion. The industry is tightly regulated due to the personal information involved." On the other hand, if it isn't acting as a consumer reporting agency, then Naborly's operation seems like it should be strictly illegal: "The process has also raised concerns from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA), which noted that property managers in Canada are not allowed to publish "bad tenants" lists." > "Any landlord that overweights that in their decision-making around who to rent to is probably doing so to their own longterm detriment." On the other hand, as in technical hiring, it is probably better to miss 10 good tenants rather than rent to one bad one. Right?
- nokcha 7y ago
  > On the other hand, as in technical hiring, it is probably better to miss 10 good tenants rather than rent to one bad one. Right? Sure, if there is a shortage of housing and surplus of potential tenants. But in areas where there is a surplus of housing, it might be better than fill a unit with a tenant who has a 15% chance of not being able to pay rent (but who is otherwise a good tenant) than leaving the unit vacant for a year.
  - Nacraile 7y ago
    > it might be better than fill a unit with a tenant who has a 15% chance of not being able to pay rent That's nowhere near the worst-case "bad tenant". The worst-case scenario takes months to evict and leaves behind tens of thousands of dollars of property damage. There might even be some personal harassment thrown in just for good measure. Avoiding such a tenant is absolutely worth missing some opportunities to fill the property with a paying tenant. Not that missing rent this April 1 is likely to tell you much about that particular risk.
jedberg 7y ago
I have access to my credit report and can dispute errors. I can also see the score and how it changes over time. Tenants do not have that transparency with this report. Heck, they don't even know if they are in the system!
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  Naborly also provides plausible deniability. From what the article says, they do not provide a detailed risk profile that a tenant might contest and correct, they provide an overall risk score. The opacity is intentional and to get around local laws. Why is this even permitted? Company top brass ought to be run out of town on a rail!
  - bravoetch 7y ago
    This kind of risk scoring is deployed by several large companies and consumed by many more. It sucks and it's very hard to get away from now.
constructiveops 7y ago
How is this unbiased? Your LRANK product looks at geographies. How can you avoid discriminating against marginalized populations in bad neighbourhoods? How are people supposed to come up in the world if you rank them based on where they're from. You got some serious white privilege with this sh*t.

anonymousab 7y ago

When there's a glut of people looking to rent, a seemingly endless supply, landlords can afford a lot of false negative rejections. This means that trying to single out the people who were able to pay during this epidemic - by simply filtering out anyone who didn't - can be a 'winning' strategy. Or at worst, a non losing one.

Mikeb85 7y ago
And thanks to the economic situation and Airbnb apocalypse there's a glut of apartments to rent in Toronto now.

lmilcin 7y ago

The difference is financial companies are well regulated and keep the information securely. Oh crap... Equifax... nevermind.

thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago

In California, all mortgage companies have said they will not notify credit report agencies during this time. That makes this another example of protection for landowners with renters on their own, causing additional friction in the upward movement of poor and lower-middle class of America.

mcguire 7y ago
What?
- thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago
  Sorry if my comment was confusing. What I was trying to say is that there are support systems in place for landowners, but not for renters. This makes it harder to breakout from being a renter to a landowner which creates a classist system. This is similar to paid higher education and possible even paid health care.

Mikeb85 7y ago

> This doesn't sound all that different from a regular credit rating. And credit agencies need to register with the government and are subject to a bunch of laws. The consumer also needs to give consent for a credit check.

mywittyname 7y ago
And (in most states) are entitled to an exact copy of the report that was delivered.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mcguire 7y ago

"Ries said Naborly seems to be acting as a consumer reporting agency, of which there are currently two licensed in Ontario: Equifax and TransUnion. The industry is tightly regulated due to the personal information involved." On the other hand, if it isn't acting as a consumer reporting agency, then Naborly's operation seems like it should be strictly illegal: "The process has also raised concerns from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA), which noted that property managers in Canada are not allowed to publish "bad tenants" lists." > "Any landlord that overweights that in their decision-making around who to rent to is probably doing so to their own longterm detriment." On the other hand, as in technical hiring, it is probably better to miss 10 good tenants rather than rent to one bad one. Right?

nokcha 7y ago
> On the other hand, as in technical hiring, it is probably better to miss 10 good tenants rather than rent to one bad one. Right? Sure, if there is a shortage of housing and surplus of potential tenants. But in areas where there is a surplus of housing, it might be better than fill a unit with a tenant who has a 15% chance of not being able to pay rent (but who is otherwise a good tenant) than leaving the unit vacant for a year.
- Nacraile 7y ago
  > it might be better than fill a unit with a tenant who has a 15% chance of not being able to pay rent That's nowhere near the worst-case "bad tenant". The worst-case scenario takes months to evict and leaves behind tens of thousands of dollars of property damage. There might even be some personal harassment thrown in just for good measure. Avoiding such a tenant is absolutely worth missing some opportunities to fill the property with a paying tenant. Not that missing rent this April 1 is likely to tell you much about that particular risk.

jedberg 7y ago

I have access to my credit report and can dispute errors. I can also see the score and how it changes over time. Tenants do not have that transparency with this report. Heck, they don't even know if they are in the system!

HarryHirsch 7y ago
Naborly also provides plausible deniability. From what the article says, they do not provide a detailed risk profile that a tenant might contest and correct, they provide an overall risk score. The opacity is intentional and to get around local laws. Why is this even permitted? Company top brass ought to be run out of town on a rail!
- bravoetch 7y ago
  This kind of risk scoring is deployed by several large companies and consumed by many more. It sucks and it's very hard to get away from now.

constructiveops 7y ago

How is this unbiased? Your LRANK product looks at geographies. How can you avoid discriminating against marginalized populations in bad neighbourhoods? How are people supposed to come up in the world if you rank them based on where they're from. You got some serious white privilege with this sh*t.