5 ms·

Whenever conspiracy theory talk pops up, I notice 2 groups of people: 1) the conspiracy theorists 2.) the people calling the conspiracy theorists crazy lunatic

by jb775 7y ago

Whenever conspiracy theory talk pops up, I notice 2 groups of people: 1) the conspiracy theorists 2.) the people calling the conspiracy theorists crazy lunatics....rarely anything in-between. Is there anyone out there that can scientifically debunk this guy's claims?

01100011 7y ago
5g isn't alien technology. It was developed over years by engineers and technicians. Did any of those folks show symptoms of 5g poisoning?
- jb775 7y ago
  I have no idea, do you know if those folks haven't shown symptoms of 5g poisoning? Probably something worthy of looking into since many people have concerns about 5g.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > Probably something worthy of looking into since many people have concerns about 5g. Take flat earthers. Because many people believe it we should investigate - so people post evidence that the earth is round, the flat earthers reject that evidence and make the flat earth claim again. So do we keep investigating? The same number of people still believe. How many times around that wheel do we go? Do you believe that no one has honestly looked into the health effects of 5g? What evidence do you think it'll take for someone who believes radio waves are causing these effects, even though scientists have pictures of the virus, to have their mind changed?
thu2111 7y ago
It's a variant of "wifi allergies". These sorts of things do crop up from time to time. In Switzerland there were people who claimed a mobile tower (or was it a new electricity mains cable) was causing them headaches and other illnesses. Only problem: the thing wasn't on when they reported complaints. That's the usual way this belief is debunked. Find people who say they can sense radio waves or are made sick by them. Wait until they complain they're sick. Show them the device was switched off. Job done. I'd love to know what it is about 5G specifically that's got these people so worked up. Maybe tower density? There are going to be just way more 5G towers than prior generations?
manifoldgeo 7y ago
Asking a person to disprove someone else's claim to the affirmative is not how the scientific method is supposed to work. The burden of proof should on the person that is claiming something is happening, rather than burdening everyone else with the disproof. This is a fundamental problem with conspiracy theorists' methods-- they often say, "You can't prove it's _not_ happening!". This is called shifting the burden, and it's a popular argument in theology. Bertrand Russell's Teapot is an example of what I mean: "If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense."[1] In that same vein, it would be a supreme waste of time to try and scientifically debunk the trolls that are promoting this nonsense; they have the burden of proof. Still I agree it would be fun to watch it be debunked. But how would you propose it be done? Gather a large number of healthy people around a 5G tower and do a cohort study of COVID-19-like symptoms among that group and compare to a control population? There's any number of possible methods, but it sounds pretty silly when you say it out loud. What's worse is even if you _did_ such a study, its results would fall on deaf ears as far as the conspiracy theory folks go. They are not interested in proof. References: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
- jb775 7y ago
  Russell's teapot a great reference here but I think sometimes it's a human fallacy of logic, or technically an "Argument from ignorance"[1]. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In this context, the "absence of evidence" is that we don't currently understand the full cause/effect intricacies of many human ailments. When there are many unknowns, it's somewhat of a straw-man argument to argue based on Russell's teapot example. For example, look at how yellow fever played out in the past. The fever swept across large populations, killing many....then people started to pick up on the fact that individuals drinking from private wells (or cisterns) weren't getting sick as often. Conspiracy theorists back in the day would have said "The public water is making us sick!", and anti-conspiracy-theorists would have said "Oh yeah? How about you prove it to me!". Considering they didn't have the technology to "prove it" (or at least it wasn't nearly as accessible as today), the anti-conspiracy-theorists were probably strutting around thinking they won the debate. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

by jb775 7y ago

01100011 7y ago

5g isn't alien technology. It was developed over years by engineers and technicians. Did any of those folks show symptoms of 5g poisoning?

jb775 7y ago
I have no idea, do you know if those folks haven't shown symptoms of 5g poisoning? Probably something worthy of looking into since many people have concerns about 5g.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > Probably something worthy of looking into since many people have concerns about 5g. Take flat earthers. Because many people believe it we should investigate - so people post evidence that the earth is round, the flat earthers reject that evidence and make the flat earth claim again. So do we keep investigating? The same number of people still believe. How many times around that wheel do we go? Do you believe that no one has honestly looked into the health effects of 5g? What evidence do you think it'll take for someone who believes radio waves are causing these effects, even though scientists have pictures of the virus, to have their mind changed?

thu2111 7y ago

It's a variant of "wifi allergies". These sorts of things do crop up from time to time. In Switzerland there were people who claimed a mobile tower (or was it a new electricity mains cable) was causing them headaches and other illnesses. Only problem: the thing wasn't on when they reported complaints. That's the usual way this belief is debunked. Find people who say they can sense radio waves or are made sick by them. Wait until they complain they're sick. Show them the device was switched off. Job done. I'd love to know what it is about 5G specifically that's got these people so worked up. Maybe tower density? There are going to be just way more 5G towers than prior generations?

manifoldgeo 7y ago

Asking a person to disprove someone else's claim to the affirmative is not how the scientific method is supposed to work. The burden of proof should on the person that is claiming something is happening, rather than burdening everyone else with the disproof. This is a fundamental problem with conspiracy theorists' methods-- they often say, "You can't prove it's _not_ happening!". This is called shifting the burden, and it's a popular argument in theology. Bertrand Russell's Teapot is an example of what I mean: "If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense."[1] In that same vein, it would be a supreme waste of time to try and scientifically debunk the trolls that are promoting this nonsense; they have the burden of proof. Still I agree it would be fun to watch it be debunked. But how would you propose it be done? Gather a large number of healthy people around a 5G tower and do a cohort study of COVID-19-like symptoms among that group and compare to a control population? There's any number of possible methods, but it sounds pretty silly when you say it out loud. What's worse is even if you _did_ such a study, its results would fall on deaf ears as far as the conspiracy theory folks go. They are not interested in proof. References: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

jb775 7y ago
Russell's teapot a great reference here but I think sometimes it's a human fallacy of logic, or technically an "Argument from ignorance"[1]. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In this context, the "absence of evidence" is that we don't currently understand the full cause/effect intricacies of many human ailments. When there are many unknowns, it's somewhat of a straw-man argument to argue based on Russell's teapot example. For example, look at how yellow fever played out in the past. The fever swept across large populations, killing many....then people started to pick up on the fact that individuals drinking from private wells (or cisterns) weren't getting sick as often. Conspiracy theorists back in the day would have said "The public water is making us sick!", and anti-conspiracy-theorists would have said "Oh yeah? How about you prove it to me!". Considering they didn't have the technology to "prove it" (or at least it wasn't nearly as accessible as today), the anti-conspiracy-theorists were probably strutting around thinking they won the debate. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance