3 ms·

The article is entirely about papers coming out and company press releases, not about hospitals actually using these tools. As someone in the AI community (who

The article is entirely about papers coming out and company press releases, not about hospitals actually using these tools. As someone in the AI community (who rolls their eyes every time it's called "AI"), I've been frustrated at all the "I trained a covid model with 98% accuracy" self-back-patting. Here's a perfect example: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/fni5ow/d_why_is_the_ai_hype_absolutely_bonkers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/fni5ow/d_w... Now, there's real work happening in the space, but I have yet to see much evidence it's being used in the real world, and when an article about its deployment only talks about its deployment via '“I wouldn’t use this as a primary screening tool, but I would use it for opportunistic screening,” such as flagging suspicious CTs or X-rays on patients who received imaging for unrelated medical reasons, says Lungren,' or talks about actual real live deployment today via 'it's totally being used some places in Korea and Brazil (according to this company's press release on their website),' I'm skeptical about the value it's adding. There's serious work happening, but it doesn't seem to be useful to the real world (yet?), and this headline is 99.9% bullshit.

rvz 7y ago
Yes. I'm also very skeptical when it comes to Deep Learning methods in healthcare since it usually involves blackbox methods like this which is of a concern to clinicians and medical professionals. The same concerns can be said for other heavily regulated industries that are there to reduce the risks of abuse, loop-holes, uncertainty or inaccurate results. This sort of news is what risks restarting the AI hype if it is proven to be unreliable or another blackbox solution which will be dismissed by medical professionals.
joshgel 7y ago
I spent the weekend in the Emergency Dept of a major NYC hospital. In the past 3 weeks I've probably looked at ~250 Chest X-rays of COVID-19+ or likely patients. (Not getting many CT scans currently). You really don't need AI to figure this out. In about 5 minutes, I could show any reasonably smart non-medical person what to look for and they'd do just as well as me (not a radiologist). They all have it and it all looks similar. What would be more interesting is if they attach outcomes data to this. From my anecdotal review of these patients over very limited follow up time periods, x-ray findings didn't seem to correlate with outcomes (death, intubation, etc) or even the need for supplemental oxygen support. That wouldn't be hype, that would be actionable and that would help us on the front-lines
- alexandercrohde 7y ago
  Well, I wonder how we get that information out there. Maybe you should make a youtube video for other doctors, and show them 20 example X-rays, and indicate why they are or aren't covid.

rvz 7y ago

Yes. I'm also very skeptical when it comes to Deep Learning methods in healthcare since it usually involves blackbox methods like this which is of a concern to clinicians and medical professionals. The same concerns can be said for other heavily regulated industries that are there to reduce the risks of abuse, loop-holes, uncertainty or inaccurate results. This sort of news is what risks restarting the AI hype if it is proven to be unreliable or another blackbox solution which will be dismissed by medical professionals.

joshgel 7y ago

I spent the weekend in the Emergency Dept of a major NYC hospital. In the past 3 weeks I've probably looked at ~250 Chest X-rays of COVID-19+ or likely patients. (Not getting many CT scans currently). You really don't need AI to figure this out. In about 5 minutes, I could show any reasonably smart non-medical person what to look for and they'd do just as well as me (not a radiologist). They all have it and it all looks similar. What would be more interesting is if they attach outcomes data to this. From my anecdotal review of these patients over very limited follow up time periods, x-ray findings didn't seem to correlate with outcomes (death, intubation, etc) or even the need for supplemental oxygen support. That wouldn't be hype, that would be actionable and that would help us on the front-lines

alexandercrohde 7y ago
Well, I wonder how we get that information out there. Maybe you should make a youtube video for other doctors, and show them 20 example X-rays, and indicate why they are or aren't covid.