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If you're feeling depressed, you might be helped by a—warm bath. A 2017 Freiburg study [1] took 36 moderately clinically depressed patients and assigned 17 to

If you're feeling depressed, you might be helped by a—warm bath. A 2017 Freiburg study [1] took 36 moderately clinically depressed patients and assigned 17 to 30-minute, 40 °C hyperthermic baths, with 19 as control. After bathing twice a week for four weeks, the study claims the 17 patients had a "moderate but significant improvement". [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371197/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371197/

saltyfever 7y ago
People must not want to hear the truth, hence your downvotes. Most forms of depression can be cured with self-care. "In health care, self-care is any necessary human regulatory function which is under individual control, deliberate and self-initiated."
- lukifer 7y ago
  I think Johann Hari has the gist right: in the vast majority of cases, depression is a signal from the body of some biological/social/emotional needs that aren't being met, rather than necessarily being an immutable medical condition. For n=1, I've struggled with (manic) depression and anxiety most of my life. And while I've used a variety of strategies to cope (Seligman's "Learned Optimism" and a potpourri of Buddhist ideas were incredibly helpful), the secret sauce was getting off of sugar and junk food. When I'm staying on a whole-foods, keto-ish diet, mood swings and unwanted negative thoughts have their volume is turned down by 90%, making the remainder relatively easy to process. Everybody's different, so YMMV; in some cases, medication are an appropriate tool. But there are some universals that basically benefit every human: drink more water, get more sleep, go for a walk in the sunshine, eat your vegetables, and the less sugar (probably) the better.
  - gramontblanc 7y ago
    The phenomenological impact of poor diet and harsh glycemic index ASDR cannot be overstated. 'refined sugars negatively impact mood and emotional well-being' might be one of the most rock solid universals of human nature. All medical interventions should include the no-brainer diet, vitamins, exercise, self-esteem interventions.
- ookdatnog 7y ago
  > Most forms of depression can be cured with self-care. That's a very strong claim to make so nonchalantly and confidently without referring to a source.
- markroseman 7y ago
  Simplistic in the extreme, especially given nobody has ever really enumerated all the (many, many) forms of depression in a meaningful way.
- gramontblanc 7y ago
  As the saying goes: have you tried self-conducted sleep deprivation, exercise, improved diet, vitamin d, sun lamps, having sex, talk therapy, or any of the clinically evaluated pharmchems yet? Why not?
kyuudou 7y ago
Add moderate exercise 2-3 times a week and there'd probably be even more improvement. I wouldn't discount the importance of good nutrition, either.
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
I think a lot of things these studies have in common is someone else is making you do self care. As someone who has suffered severe depression on more than one occasion, in those times I know I should practice good hygiene, nutrition, exercise, sleep habits, etc., but the very nature of depression is that it takes away the motivation to do those things. If I were in a study where someone actually prepared the bath for me at a spa center, I bet I would also improve. IMO, "fixing" depression really means fixing fundamental self-motivation, not just a transitory "oh this feels a little better".
- fudged71 7y ago
  As a personal trainer this hits the mark. People generally know what they should be doing and often need the accountability of following through with a protocol, lifestyle change, or checkups to see that they are actually following through
cjensen 7y ago
"Take a warm bath" suffers from a lot of the same problems as this study. You can't actually have a blind control group, so there is effectively no control group. So this is really just 17 people assigned to take a warm bath. The thing about mental illness is that it's really really hard to be sure if something helped. You're brain is the thing that is broken, and your brain knows you are being treated. I have depression. I've lost count of the things I've tried, and when asked, I have to say "I don't know if this actually helped or if it's just my brain thinking it should have helped." With depression, studies which are not double-blind are garbage.

saltyfever 7y ago

People must not want to hear the truth, hence your downvotes. Most forms of depression can be cured with self-care. "In health care, self-care is any necessary human regulatory function which is under individual control, deliberate and self-initiated."

lukifer 7y ago
I think Johann Hari has the gist right: in the vast majority of cases, depression is a signal from the body of some biological/social/emotional needs that aren't being met, rather than necessarily being an immutable medical condition. For n=1, I've struggled with (manic) depression and anxiety most of my life. And while I've used a variety of strategies to cope (Seligman's "Learned Optimism" and a potpourri of Buddhist ideas were incredibly helpful), the secret sauce was getting off of sugar and junk food. When I'm staying on a whole-foods, keto-ish diet, mood swings and unwanted negative thoughts have their volume is turned down by 90%, making the remainder relatively easy to process. Everybody's different, so YMMV; in some cases, medication are an appropriate tool. But there are some universals that basically benefit every human: drink more water, get more sleep, go for a walk in the sunshine, eat your vegetables, and the less sugar (probably) the better.
- gramontblanc 7y ago
  The phenomenological impact of poor diet and harsh glycemic index ASDR cannot be overstated. 'refined sugars negatively impact mood and emotional well-being' might be one of the most rock solid universals of human nature. All medical interventions should include the no-brainer diet, vitamins, exercise, self-esteem interventions.
ookdatnog 7y ago
> Most forms of depression can be cured with self-care. That's a very strong claim to make so nonchalantly and confidently without referring to a source.
markroseman 7y ago
Simplistic in the extreme, especially given nobody has ever really enumerated all the (many, many) forms of depression in a meaningful way.
gramontblanc 7y ago
As the saying goes: have you tried self-conducted sleep deprivation, exercise, improved diet, vitamin d, sun lamps, having sex, talk therapy, or any of the clinically evaluated pharmchems yet? Why not?

kyuudou 7y ago

Add moderate exercise 2-3 times a week and there'd probably be even more improvement. I wouldn't discount the importance of good nutrition, either.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

I think a lot of things these studies have in common is someone else is making you do self care. As someone who has suffered severe depression on more than one occasion, in those times I know I should practice good hygiene, nutrition, exercise, sleep habits, etc., but the very nature of depression is that it takes away the motivation to do those things. If I were in a study where someone actually prepared the bath for me at a spa center, I bet I would also improve. IMO, "fixing" depression really means fixing fundamental self-motivation, not just a transitory "oh this feels a little better".

fudged71 7y ago
As a personal trainer this hits the mark. People generally know what they should be doing and often need the accountability of following through with a protocol, lifestyle change, or checkups to see that they are actually following through

cjensen 7y ago

"Take a warm bath" suffers from a lot of the same problems as this study. You can't actually have a blind control group, so there is effectively no control group. So this is really just 17 people assigned to take a warm bath. The thing about mental illness is that it's really really hard to be sure if something helped. You're brain is the thing that is broken, and your brain knows you are being treated. I have depression. I've lost count of the things I've tried, and when asked, I have to say "I don't know if this actually helped or if it's just my brain thinking it should have helped." With depression, studies which are not double-blind are garbage.