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You are proving my point for me. You read the word "Libertarian" and immediately start rambling about Republicans and how cruel I am for my "religious philosoph

You are proving my point for me. You read the word "Libertarian" and immediately start rambling about Republicans and how cruel I am for my "religious philosophy". > Sorry if this annoying inconvenient health crisis has knocked the blocks out from under your religious philosophy, but we NEED government intervention right now to save people's lives This is a strawman, and there's no reason for you to be so offensive. I absolutely agree that government action is proper and necessary to protect the population, especially right now. "Provide for the general defense" is one of the government's jobs. I think you should take a minute to examine your assumptions about what libertarianism is instead of reacting emotionally whenever you hear the word.

DonHopkins 7y ago
I think you should save your breath for defending libertarianism from the mindless hoards of people who actually claim to be libertarian themselves, but don't know what it means. Because I know very well what it means, and don't claim to be one myself. I've done nothing anywhere near as offensive and self-centered as what Rand Paul has done, first parroting Trump by downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, then knowingly spreading the highly contagious disease after he was exposed to it, by following Trump's idiotic advice to go about your normal daily life, instead of following sound medical advice to quarantine until he got his test results, which were positive. On top of his medical training and long career of opposing universal health care. He's a physician: he should have known (and does know) better than to do that, and that makes his policies and behavior perfectly aligned with the stereotype of the heartless libertarian who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He can't fall back to Trump's ignorant "I'm not a doctor, but take this pill from a company I've invested in" defense. We needed universal healthcare BEFORE the pandemic struck. Why have you and your ideological colleagues fought tooth and nail against it for so long, to the point of lying about and sabotaging Obamacare? Are you finally changing your tune, when it's way too late? https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacare-replacement-act-2017-1?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacar... So what was your position on universal health care before, and what is it now, and does that align with the "true libertarian" philosophy, or are you "no true Scotsman" yourself? I'd love to hear your defense of Rand Paul's actions. Is he a true libertarian like you? And how about Eric S Raymond: do you think he knows what he's talking about?
- dahfizz 7y ago
  Your focus on universal healthcare is understandable, but misguided. America has more doctors and more hospital beds per capita than Europe does. This is one of the reasons that Europe has seen more coronavirus cases and more deaths per capita than America - their healthcare system is starved for resources. I am in no way claiming that the American healthcare system is perfect, but I don't see universal healthcare as a panacea, because we are seeing in real time that it is not. As far as what my stance on healthcare is: I think healthcare is a unique market where there is rarely the ability for you as the patient to make an informed decision about your medical care. In other words, a free market approach is not entirely feasible. I think a system similar to our school system would be ideal: publicly operated hospitals available for little to no charge, with the freedom to start a private hospital that has to compete with the public ones. This would mean high quality care at reasonable prices all around. This has always been my stance. I've met libertarians who agree and disagree with me, but I can defend my stance using libertarian "first principles". So I think it's fair to call it "true libertarian" philosophy. A libertarian is not a republican, and a libertarian is not an anarchist. A libertarian simply believes that individual rights should be protected. That should not be such a controversial statement.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Democrats believe individual rights should be protected too. It isn't a controversial statement, and libertarians don't have a monopoly on that, despite their straw man mischaracterizations of other political parties, and their mistaken but fanatical belief that health care and access to education aren't individual rights worth protecting. Your replies are full of other gross mischaracterizations and misstatements of fact, but I won't fall for the old Gish Gallop. But most noticeably, you don't contest the fact that Rand Paul has made his career fighting tooth and nail against universal health care and sabotaging and dismantling Obamacare and fucking over people with pre-existing conditions, and that he is a hypocritical menace to society for downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, while as a trained physician exposed to a highly contagious virus, knowingly, cruelly, and heartlessly spreading it himself FOR A WEEK, right? Which perfectly fits the libertarian stereotype. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/rand-paul-coronavirus-test-reckless/608593/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/rand-pa... >Rand Paul Has More Than a Cold >The senator from Kentucky was worried enough to get tested. But while he waited for the results, he kept going to work, the gym, and the pool. >By inadvertently spreading the coronavirus around the U.S. Capitol for at least a week, Rand Paul has turned the world’s greatest deliberative body into the nation’s highest-profile vector for the spread of the pandemic. >The senator from Kentucky was worried enough about being exposed to the virus that he got a still-hard-to-obtain test for it. But while he was waiting for the results, he decided to keep showing up to the Senate. He went to group lunches with his Republican colleagues, took the Capitol elevators, talked with reporters, and worked out in the somehow-still-open Senate gym. Yesterday morning, he was doing laps in the pool there. >[...] There’s no question that Paul got special treatment. He got a test that others want and can’t get, and he got it despite having no symptoms—something the president has explicitly said people shouldn’t be doing. He got it as a United States senator, which means that he got it on a taxpayer-funded government health-care plan. Everyone else, including those who might be fighting for a ventilator in the coming weeks, can wait. Now what were you saying about the stereotype of libertarians not being fair?

DonHopkins 7y ago

I think you should save your breath for defending libertarianism from the mindless hoards of people who actually claim to be libertarian themselves, but don't know what it means. Because I know very well what it means, and don't claim to be one myself. I've done nothing anywhere near as offensive and self-centered as what Rand Paul has done, first parroting Trump by downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, then knowingly spreading the highly contagious disease after he was exposed to it, by following Trump's idiotic advice to go about your normal daily life, instead of following sound medical advice to quarantine until he got his test results, which were positive. On top of his medical training and long career of opposing universal health care. He's a physician: he should have known (and does know) better than to do that, and that makes his policies and behavior perfectly aligned with the stereotype of the heartless libertarian who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He can't fall back to Trump's ignorant "I'm not a doctor, but take this pill from a company I've invested in" defense. We needed universal healthcare BEFORE the pandemic struck. Why have you and your ideological colleagues fought tooth and nail against it for so long, to the point of lying about and sabotaging Obamacare? Are you finally changing your tune, when it's way too late? https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacare-replacement-act-2017-1?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacar... So what was your position on universal health care before, and what is it now, and does that align with the "true libertarian" philosophy, or are you "no true Scotsman" yourself? I'd love to hear your defense of Rand Paul's actions. Is he a true libertarian like you? And how about Eric S Raymond: do you think he knows what he's talking about?

dahfizz 7y ago
Your focus on universal healthcare is understandable, but misguided. America has more doctors and more hospital beds per capita than Europe does. This is one of the reasons that Europe has seen more coronavirus cases and more deaths per capita than America - their healthcare system is starved for resources. I am in no way claiming that the American healthcare system is perfect, but I don't see universal healthcare as a panacea, because we are seeing in real time that it is not. As far as what my stance on healthcare is: I think healthcare is a unique market where there is rarely the ability for you as the patient to make an informed decision about your medical care. In other words, a free market approach is not entirely feasible. I think a system similar to our school system would be ideal: publicly operated hospitals available for little to no charge, with the freedom to start a private hospital that has to compete with the public ones. This would mean high quality care at reasonable prices all around. This has always been my stance. I've met libertarians who agree and disagree with me, but I can defend my stance using libertarian "first principles". So I think it's fair to call it "true libertarian" philosophy. A libertarian is not a republican, and a libertarian is not an anarchist. A libertarian simply believes that individual rights should be protected. That should not be such a controversial statement.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Democrats believe individual rights should be protected too. It isn't a controversial statement, and libertarians don't have a monopoly on that, despite their straw man mischaracterizations of other political parties, and their mistaken but fanatical belief that health care and access to education aren't individual rights worth protecting. Your replies are full of other gross mischaracterizations and misstatements of fact, but I won't fall for the old Gish Gallop. But most noticeably, you don't contest the fact that Rand Paul has made his career fighting tooth and nail against universal health care and sabotaging and dismantling Obamacare and fucking over people with pre-existing conditions, and that he is a hypocritical menace to society for downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, while as a trained physician exposed to a highly contagious virus, knowingly, cruelly, and heartlessly spreading it himself FOR A WEEK, right? Which perfectly fits the libertarian stereotype. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/rand-paul-coronavirus-test-reckless/608593/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/rand-pa... >Rand Paul Has More Than a Cold >The senator from Kentucky was worried enough to get tested. But while he waited for the results, he kept going to work, the gym, and the pool. >By inadvertently spreading the coronavirus around the U.S. Capitol for at least a week, Rand Paul has turned the world’s greatest deliberative body into the nation’s highest-profile vector for the spread of the pandemic. >The senator from Kentucky was worried enough about being exposed to the virus that he got a still-hard-to-obtain test for it. But while he was waiting for the results, he decided to keep showing up to the Senate. He went to group lunches with his Republican colleagues, took the Capitol elevators, talked with reporters, and worked out in the somehow-still-open Senate gym. Yesterday morning, he was doing laps in the pool there. >[...] There’s no question that Paul got special treatment. He got a test that others want and can’t get, and he got it despite having no symptoms—something the president has explicitly said people shouldn’t be doing. He got it as a United States senator, which means that he got it on a taxpayer-funded government health-care plan. Everyone else, including those who might be fighting for a ventilator in the coming weeks, can wait. Now what were you saying about the stereotype of libertarians not being fair?