4 ms·

Now name any transaction more complicated "I agree to pay you $3 for this bunch of asparagus" where the buying side has as much information as the selling side.

Now name any transaction more complicated "I agree to pay you $3 for this bunch of asparagus" where the buying side has as much information as the selling side. It seems to me the government should be involved in almost every transaction.

steerablesafe 7y ago
Is that asparagus bio though? I can't tell by just looking at it. And I definitely can't tell if it tastes any good.
dahfizz 7y ago
> It seems to me the government should be involved in almost every transaction. Depending on your definition of "involved", every libertarian I know would agree with you. Most people's conception of libertarianism is a massive straw man. I promise we are not as insane as you've been lead to believe ;)
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Actually you are, because your pronoun "we" includes all the people whose conception of libertarianism is a massive straw man, but claim to be libertarians themselves. Which is now most self-described "libertarians", and a large swath of the Republican party. Now days it's just a meaningless euphemism people use when they don't want to admit they voted Republican. And the few libertarians who actually know what it means are usually quite cruel and heartless, fighting tooth and nail against universal heath care even today, because their ideological principles outweigh their empathy and humanity. But as a result of your ideological evangelism, you own all the self-described "libertarians" who your philosophy appeals to simply because they want to hurt and punish poor people, but don't understand what it "really means". Sorry if this annoying inconvenient health crisis has knocked the blocks out from under your religious philosophy (and that the invisible hand of the market saw it necessary to bitch slap Rand Paul into quarantine after he downplayed the severity Coronavirus, got it himself, tested positive, and continued to selfishly spread it while awaiting the predictably positive results), but we NEED government intervention and universal health care right now to save people's lives, so please spare us the "no true Scotsman" lecture.
  - dahfizz 7y ago
    You are proving my point for me. You read the word "Libertarian" and immediately start rambling about Republicans and how cruel I am for my "religious philosophy". > Sorry if this annoying inconvenient health crisis has knocked the blocks out from under your religious philosophy, but we NEED government intervention right now to save people's lives This is a strawman, and there's no reason for you to be so offensive. I absolutely agree that government action is proper and necessary to protect the population, especially right now. "Provide for the general defense" is one of the government's jobs. I think you should take a minute to examine your assumptions about what libertarianism is instead of reacting emotionally whenever you hear the word.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      I think you should save your breath for defending libertarianism from the mindless hoards of people who actually claim to be libertarian themselves, but don't know what it means. Because I know very well what it means, and don't claim to be one myself. I've done nothing anywhere near as offensive and self-centered as what Rand Paul has done, first parroting Trump by downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, then knowingly spreading the highly contagious disease after he was exposed to it, by following Trump's idiotic advice to go about your normal daily life, instead of following sound medical advice to quarantine until he got his test results, which were positive. On top of his medical training and long career of opposing universal health care. He's a physician: he should have known (and does know) better than to do that, and that makes his policies and behavior perfectly aligned with the stereotype of the heartless libertarian who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He can't fall back to Trump's ignorant "I'm not a doctor, but take this pill from a company I've invested in" defense. We needed universal healthcare BEFORE the pandemic struck. Why have you and your ideological colleagues fought tooth and nail against it for so long, to the point of lying about and sabotaging Obamacare? Are you finally changing your tune, when it's way too late? https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacare-replacement-act-2017-1?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacar... So what was your position on universal health care before, and what is it now, and does that align with the "true libertarian" philosophy, or are you "no true Scotsman" yourself? I'd love to hear your defense of Rand Paul's actions. Is he a true libertarian like you? And how about Eric S Raymond: do you think he knows what he's talking about?
tialaramex 7y ago
Real quick after this becomes normal, somebody is making an extra few cents by buying 10 bunches of asparagus from a farmer, redividing them and selling 11 bunches to customers. What gets done about that? Weights and Measures. I agree to pay you $3 for a spigglywig of asparagus. Then I worry your spigglywig is deliberately under-size. The market town gets an officer to check you're selling asparagus in correct spigglywigs, and next thing you know you've got a multi-billion dollar metrology (the science of measuring things) research lab and they're defining the fundamental constants of nature so as to be right certain exactly how much a spigglywig is every time. So yes, "free market" is at best a model that can only be approximated and at worst it's a filthy lie.
cameronbrown 7y ago
> It seems to me the government should be involved in almost every transaction. Yuck. I'm not a hard free-market-only libertarian (I believe in single payer healthcare for example) but economic transactions between two private parties should never have government involvement. Hell, I dislike the banks and credit card companies having involvement, we tolerate them because we have no choice.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

steerablesafe 7y ago

Is that asparagus bio though? I can't tell by just looking at it. And I definitely can't tell if it tastes any good.

dahfizz 7y ago

> It seems to me the government should be involved in almost every transaction. Depending on your definition of "involved", every libertarian I know would agree with you. Most people's conception of libertarianism is a massive straw man. I promise we are not as insane as you've been lead to believe ;)

DonHopkins 7y ago
Actually you are, because your pronoun "we" includes all the people whose conception of libertarianism is a massive straw man, but claim to be libertarians themselves. Which is now most self-described "libertarians", and a large swath of the Republican party. Now days it's just a meaningless euphemism people use when they don't want to admit they voted Republican. And the few libertarians who actually know what it means are usually quite cruel and heartless, fighting tooth and nail against universal heath care even today, because their ideological principles outweigh their empathy and humanity. But as a result of your ideological evangelism, you own all the self-described "libertarians" who your philosophy appeals to simply because they want to hurt and punish poor people, but don't understand what it "really means". Sorry if this annoying inconvenient health crisis has knocked the blocks out from under your religious philosophy (and that the invisible hand of the market saw it necessary to bitch slap Rand Paul into quarantine after he downplayed the severity Coronavirus, got it himself, tested positive, and continued to selfishly spread it while awaiting the predictably positive results), but we NEED government intervention and universal health care right now to save people's lives, so please spare us the "no true Scotsman" lecture.
- dahfizz 7y ago
  You are proving my point for me. You read the word "Libertarian" and immediately start rambling about Republicans and how cruel I am for my "religious philosophy". > Sorry if this annoying inconvenient health crisis has knocked the blocks out from under your religious philosophy, but we NEED government intervention right now to save people's lives This is a strawman, and there's no reason for you to be so offensive. I absolutely agree that government action is proper and necessary to protect the population, especially right now. "Provide for the general defense" is one of the government's jobs. I think you should take a minute to examine your assumptions about what libertarianism is instead of reacting emotionally whenever you hear the word.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    I think you should save your breath for defending libertarianism from the mindless hoards of people who actually claim to be libertarian themselves, but don't know what it means. Because I know very well what it means, and don't claim to be one myself. I've done nothing anywhere near as offensive and self-centered as what Rand Paul has done, first parroting Trump by downplaying the risk of Coronavirus, then knowingly spreading the highly contagious disease after he was exposed to it, by following Trump's idiotic advice to go about your normal daily life, instead of following sound medical advice to quarantine until he got his test results, which were positive. On top of his medical training and long career of opposing universal health care. He's a physician: he should have known (and does know) better than to do that, and that makes his policies and behavior perfectly aligned with the stereotype of the heartless libertarian who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He can't fall back to Trump's ignorant "I'm not a doctor, but take this pill from a company I've invested in" defense. We needed universal healthcare BEFORE the pandemic struck. Why have you and your ideological colleagues fought tooth and nail against it for so long, to the point of lying about and sabotaging Obamacare? Are you finally changing your tune, when it's way too late? https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacare-replacement-act-2017-1?international=true&r=US https://www.businessinsider.nl/rand-paul-introduced-obamacar... So what was your position on universal health care before, and what is it now, and does that align with the "true libertarian" philosophy, or are you "no true Scotsman" yourself? I'd love to hear your defense of Rand Paul's actions. Is he a true libertarian like you? And how about Eric S Raymond: do you think he knows what he's talking about?

tialaramex 7y ago

Real quick after this becomes normal, somebody is making an extra few cents by buying 10 bunches of asparagus from a farmer, redividing them and selling 11 bunches to customers. What gets done about that? Weights and Measures. I agree to pay you $3 for a spigglywig of asparagus. Then I worry your spigglywig is deliberately under-size. The market town gets an officer to check you're selling asparagus in correct spigglywigs, and next thing you know you've got a multi-billion dollar metrology (the science of measuring things) research lab and they're defining the fundamental constants of nature so as to be right certain exactly how much a spigglywig is every time. So yes, "free market" is at best a model that can only be approximated and at worst it's a filthy lie.

cameronbrown 7y ago

> It seems to me the government should be involved in almost every transaction. Yuck. I'm not a hard free-market-only libertarian (I believe in single payer healthcare for example) but economic transactions between two private parties should never have government involvement. Hell, I dislike the banks and credit card companies having involvement, we tolerate them because we have no choice.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]