8 ms·

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson taken to intensive care

67 points by DanBC 7y ago

aazaa 7y ago
Johnson, like many world leaders, vastly underestimated what he was facing: > "I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands," he said. "People obviously can make up their own minds but I think the scientific evidence is… our judgement is that washing your hands is the crucial thing." https://www.newsweek.com/boris-johnson-says-shaken-hands-coronavirus-patients-1490214 https://www.newsweek.com/boris-johnson-says-shaken-hands-cor... This may be the first crisis where shooting your mouth off about things you know little about backfires - quickly and lethally. I suspect there will be many instances of this sort of thing in the months to come. False predictions about "light at the end of the tunnel." Panicked re-instatements of lockdowns after premature lifting. Miracle cures that turn deadly because drugs are much more complicated than they seem. All the while cheerleaders with hidden agendas will continue to promote dangerous, ill-informed opinions.
- DanBC 7y ago
  There have been so many people, including here on HN, who've said you only have to worry if you're over 80 or have significant comorbidity. Those groups are higher risk, but that doesn't mean everyone else is "no risk". Here's a twitter thread that contains a link to data from English, Welsh, and Northern Irish intensive care units. https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1246866119597621248 https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1246866119597621248
- neilwilson 7y ago
  That was weeks ago. The facts changed and he changed his mind. Yet nothing he has said since then erases the original sin apparently. Now he’s in ICU and may not survive. Let those without sin cast the first stone.
  - nabla9 7y ago
    Johnson showed the same careless attitude towards covid facts as he has shown towards all other things he has faced in his life. > The facts changed and he changed his mind He was pushing against scientific advise at first without good reason when the time is the essence. Nobody should wish him iĺl, but using him as an example is justified.
  - Axsuul 7y ago
    I think "may not survive" is setting the wrong tone here since the odds of him surviving are good.
    - parsimo2010 7y ago
      Consider that people in ICU have a much higher mortality rate than the general population, that the government is going to bias their reports towards calm and stability, and that most people would even call a 20% probability of dying pretty bad. Saying that “he may not survive“ is perfectly reasonable. It’s not saying he’s definitely going to die. I hope the media wouldn’t sensationalize it like this, but there is definitely a chance that he will die.
      - redis_mlc 7y ago
        There's 66% - 90% mortality after ventilator use by corona patients.
        baha_man 7y ago
        He's not on a ventilator yet as far as we know
  - KarlKemp 7y ago
    The facts didn’t change: it’s the same virus now as it was then. Our understanding of it may have changed. But even then, its lethality was obvious to anyone who didn’t think Europeans are somehow different from Chinese. And it’s easy to prove that this virus was considered dangerous even back then: this whole shtick of shaking hands and talking about it doesn’t make any sense except against the backdrop of people warning against it. It was a macho bravado move; performative politics put on as a gambit to win another news cycle in the endless culture wars. And it is so obvious a parallel to Brexit, from the blatant disregard of evidence, expertise, and science all the way to the hints of racism, that no appeal of “not the day to get into the politics” will be able to prevent people from seeing the obvious: it was incredibly stupid. To not point out how his kind of politics is now endangering his life would waste an opportunity to learn, at a moment where decisions can still influence outcomes, and good decisions can make the difference for thousands of people who may or may not die. With that in mind, it is also in everyone’s interest, beyond basic humanity demanding it, to hope for his survival: Boris Johnson is a terrible person in many regards, but he isn’t entirely stupid. There’s a good chance he would learn from this, and he may well be the perfect ambassador that can get through to his fans.
- downerending 7y ago
  It's hard to accept, but it might be a Kobayashi Maru. It could be that smart or dumb, the end result would be about the same.
haunter 7y ago
“I can tell you that I’m shaking hands continuously. I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you’ll be pleased to know and I continue to shake hands”. (March 3rd) https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1234828026933805057 https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1234828026933805057
jjgreen 7y ago
He's been looking rougher and rougher as the week has worn on, I don't like the guy but wouldn't wish this on him.
Freestyler_3 7y ago
Where did all of these leaders get their information about covid from? Surely not from the people who were watching the crisis develop in China. Another stupid thing: People have been burning down cell towers because they think 5G causes corona. Only to leave their area to be less covered by telephone network, possibly making it harder to reach emergency services. edit: I know many leaders have changed their views to more realistic ones, but I do wonder how they could be so misinformed in the beginning.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > Where did all of these leaders get their information about covid from? Surely not from the people who were watching the crisis develop in China. The official information coming out of China was "mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions, kind of like the flu". Later, the official information coming out of Italy was "mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions, kind of like the flu". Therefore, if you're not going to make a big fuss about the flu, why make one about COVID-19? Quite a few actual virologists took this stance, at least for a while. The alarmists won the battle for attention, but not because of superior information. That was also before Italy was overwhelmed. Even experts underestimated just how virulent COVID-19 was going to be and how many people were going to get it in such short order of time. However, the fact remains that it's mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions - kind of like the flu. If the flu kills an otherwise healthy person, which happens all the time, it's not news. COVID-19 is an unprecedented media spectacle, with unprecedented reactions from governments across the world, mob mentality is driving more and more drastic responses. It's not a foregone conclusion that these drastic responses were the right measure. Sweden has done pretty much nothing, yet their graphs don't look any worse than those of other European countries. Perhaps they're covering it all up, but perhaps all of this social distancing, all this shutdown does very little to slow the spread of this disease if just a few people go shopping once a week, if just a few people go to work and carry it home. We don't know, because we don't know how COVID-19 actually spreads. History is written by the winners. Had COVID-19 turned out less severe, the alarmists would've been decried as oversensitive fools. Now the anti-alarmists are being portrayed as irresponsible. Yet, both acted in good faith on the same information. Don't forget that the price of the shutdown is a major recession, it's not a simple political decision to make. The principle of charity must be applied.
agd 7y ago
I don’t think this is the time for snarky comments about his politics. He’s in intensive care and his wife is pregnant. I hope he gets better soon and I hope his family are doing ok at this difficult time.
- ColinWright 7y ago
  > ... his wife is pregnant. Prime Minister Johnson is not married. In 1987, he married Allegra Mostyn-Owen. That was annulled in 1993. Twelve days later he married Marina Wheeler. Johnson and Wheeler finalised their divorce in February 2020. On February 29th Johnson announced his engagement to Carrie Symonds. He is engaged to be married, and his fiancée is expecting. But he is not currently married. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Relationships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Relationships
  - mprev 7y ago
    Any time someone gives the guy’s full name it’s a clear indicator of a certain agenda. Give it a rest. Dredge it up when he’s recovered or maybe, if he doesn’t survive this, after a respectful interval following his death.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - ColinWright 7y ago
      I have edited my comment. It now no longer gives his full name, nor mentions all of the documented relationships.
      - Bnshsysjab 7y ago
        I don’t think it’s the full names the parent comment is taking issues with here.
  - deanmoriarty 7y ago
mandeepj 7y ago
Why no Chinese politician has contracted Corona? Did they understand the risk from day 1? Heck, none of their other cities were impacted by it but the disease has made its way to London, NYC, and all the major other cities.
- haunter 7y ago
  How many times have you seen Johnson, Trump, Merkel, Macron etc. in facemask? Whenever they shown Xi Jinping in Wuhan or any member of the politburo visiting hospitals and such they were all wearing masks, sometimes even rubber gloves too.
  - nojvek 7y ago
    It’s not the first battle of Chinese with viruses. SARS, bird flu, swine flu. They’ve learnt their lessons. I do hope they get their animal market hygiene together. It’s a bit crazy how many viruses have originated from China.
  - rasz 7y ago
    Not to mention they were visiting prop hospitals.
MiguelVieira 7y ago
From the CDC: "Mortality among patients admitted to the ICU ranges from 39% to 72% depending on the study. The median length of hospitalization among survivors was 10 to 13 days."
davidwitt415 7y ago
A few weeks ago, Johnson suggested in public that the US 'take one on the chin' regarding Covid-19. How's that working out for you Boris? I don't care if you think this is inappropriate, because I find it welcome that for once a politician has to personally face the ramifications of his fecklessness. If only more of our leaders would have to face up, we might have real leadership instead of political posturing.
- sbeedge 7y ago
  Yeah, like, kill them all.
  - mtmail 7y ago
    Wishing the death of other people is deeply inappropriate.
- thu2111 7y ago
  He said the UK needed to do that, not the US. And in case you're in doubt, yes, it's wildly inappropriate. To wish revenge on a politician who has from the start delegated to his own scientific advisors, which is exactly what people wanted politicians to do, is a sick thing. You can go read the same advice he was reading on gov.uk, which states the obvious very clearly: you can't stop a virus with no vaccine by keeping everyone under indefinite house arrest. Even the dubious modellers admit that lockdown doesn't really flatten the curve, it just moves it forward. There's no solution in lockdown and it's wrong to pretend otherwise. Given the information at the time (and still now) the original "let it spread with timed and staged lockdown" strategy was very likely correct. It becomes clearer every day. The hospitals aren't overflowing, the country hasn't run out of ventilators - not even close - and yet the economy is trashed with consequent dire impacts to the future funding of the healthcare system and other public services. The country could clearly be coping with fewer restrictions than it has now. Despite that it's no surprise that the British left may sadly rejoice at Boris' ill fortune. It's hard to forget the parties they threw when Thatcher died.
  - DanBC 7y ago
nojvek 7y ago
I hope Boris gets out of this as a new leaf. It’s also a real wake up call to politicians that what they say in public and their policies have serious repercussions. Every decision they make in the current pandemic climate could take or potentially save lives. Some of them being their loved ones.

67 points by DanBC 7y ago

Johnson, like many world leaders, vastly underestimated what he was facing: > "I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands," he said. "People obviously can make up their own minds but I think the scientific evidence is… our judgement is that washing your hands is the crucial thing." https://www.newsweek.com/boris-johnson-says-shaken-hands-coronavirus-patients-1490214 https://www.newsweek.com/boris-johnson-says-shaken-hands-cor... This may be the first crisis where shooting your mouth off about things you know little about backfires - quickly and lethally. I suspect there will be many instances of this sort of thing in the months to come. False predictions about "light at the end of the tunnel." Panicked re-instatements of lockdowns after premature lifting. Miracle cures that turn deadly because drugs are much more complicated than they seem. All the while cheerleaders with hidden agendas will continue to promote dangerous, ill-informed opinions.

DanBC 7y ago
There have been so many people, including here on HN, who've said you only have to worry if you're over 80 or have significant comorbidity. Those groups are higher risk, but that doesn't mean everyone else is "no risk". Here's a twitter thread that contains a link to data from English, Welsh, and Northern Irish intensive care units. https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1246866119597621248 https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1246866119597621248
neilwilson 7y ago
That was weeks ago. The facts changed and he changed his mind. Yet nothing he has said since then erases the original sin apparently. Now he’s in ICU and may not survive. Let those without sin cast the first stone.
- nabla9 7y ago
  Johnson showed the same careless attitude towards covid facts as he has shown towards all other things he has faced in his life. > The facts changed and he changed his mind He was pushing against scientific advise at first without good reason when the time is the essence. Nobody should wish him iĺl, but using him as an example is justified.
- Axsuul 7y ago
  I think "may not survive" is setting the wrong tone here since the odds of him surviving are good.
  - parsimo2010 7y ago
    Consider that people in ICU have a much higher mortality rate than the general population, that the government is going to bias their reports towards calm and stability, and that most people would even call a 20% probability of dying pretty bad. Saying that “he may not survive“ is perfectly reasonable. It’s not saying he’s definitely going to die. I hope the media wouldn’t sensationalize it like this, but there is definitely a chance that he will die.
    - redis_mlc 7y ago
      There's 66% - 90% mortality after ventilator use by corona patients.
      - baha_man 7y ago
        He's not on a ventilator yet as far as we know
- KarlKemp 7y ago
  The facts didn’t change: it’s the same virus now as it was then. Our understanding of it may have changed. But even then, its lethality was obvious to anyone who didn’t think Europeans are somehow different from Chinese. And it’s easy to prove that this virus was considered dangerous even back then: this whole shtick of shaking hands and talking about it doesn’t make any sense except against the backdrop of people warning against it. It was a macho bravado move; performative politics put on as a gambit to win another news cycle in the endless culture wars. And it is so obvious a parallel to Brexit, from the blatant disregard of evidence, expertise, and science all the way to the hints of racism, that no appeal of “not the day to get into the politics” will be able to prevent people from seeing the obvious: it was incredibly stupid. To not point out how his kind of politics is now endangering his life would waste an opportunity to learn, at a moment where decisions can still influence outcomes, and good decisions can make the difference for thousands of people who may or may not die. With that in mind, it is also in everyone’s interest, beyond basic humanity demanding it, to hope for his survival: Boris Johnson is a terrible person in many regards, but he isn’t entirely stupid. There’s a good chance he would learn from this, and he may well be the perfect ambassador that can get through to his fans.
downerending 7y ago
It's hard to accept, but it might be a Kobayashi Maru. It could be that smart or dumb, the end result would be about the same.

haunter 7y ago

“I can tell you that I’m shaking hands continuously. I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you’ll be pleased to know and I continue to shake hands”. (March 3rd) https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1234828026933805057 https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1234828026933805057

jjgreen 7y ago

He's been looking rougher and rougher as the week has worn on, I don't like the guy but wouldn't wish this on him.

Freestyler_3 7y ago

Where did all of these leaders get their information about covid from? Surely not from the people who were watching the crisis develop in China. Another stupid thing: People have been burning down cell towers because they think 5G causes corona. Only to leave their area to be less covered by telephone network, possibly making it harder to reach emergency services. edit: I know many leaders have changed their views to more realistic ones, but I do wonder how they could be so misinformed in the beginning.

gridlockd 7y ago
> Where did all of these leaders get their information about covid from? Surely not from the people who were watching the crisis develop in China. The official information coming out of China was "mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions, kind of like the flu". Later, the official information coming out of Italy was "mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions, kind of like the flu". Therefore, if you're not going to make a big fuss about the flu, why make one about COVID-19? Quite a few actual virologists took this stance, at least for a while. The alarmists won the battle for attention, but not because of superior information. That was also before Italy was overwhelmed. Even experts underestimated just how virulent COVID-19 was going to be and how many people were going to get it in such short order of time. However, the fact remains that it's mostly mild courses, mostly kills old people with pre-existing conditions - kind of like the flu. If the flu kills an otherwise healthy person, which happens all the time, it's not news. COVID-19 is an unprecedented media spectacle, with unprecedented reactions from governments across the world, mob mentality is driving more and more drastic responses. It's not a foregone conclusion that these drastic responses were the right measure. Sweden has done pretty much nothing, yet their graphs don't look any worse than those of other European countries. Perhaps they're covering it all up, but perhaps all of this social distancing, all this shutdown does very little to slow the spread of this disease if just a few people go shopping once a week, if just a few people go to work and carry it home. We don't know, because we don't know how COVID-19 actually spreads. History is written by the winners. Had COVID-19 turned out less severe, the alarmists would've been decried as oversensitive fools. Now the anti-alarmists are being portrayed as irresponsible. Yet, both acted in good faith on the same information. Don't forget that the price of the shutdown is a major recession, it's not a simple political decision to make. The principle of charity must be applied.

agd 7y ago

I don’t think this is the time for snarky comments about his politics. He’s in intensive care and his wife is pregnant. I hope he gets better soon and I hope his family are doing ok at this difficult time.

ColinWright 7y ago
> ... his wife is pregnant. Prime Minister Johnson is not married. In 1987, he married Allegra Mostyn-Owen. That was annulled in 1993. Twelve days later he married Marina Wheeler. Johnson and Wheeler finalised their divorce in February 2020. On February 29th Johnson announced his engagement to Carrie Symonds. He is engaged to be married, and his fiancée is expecting. But he is not currently married. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Relationships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Relationships
- mprev 7y ago
  Any time someone gives the guy’s full name it’s a clear indicator of a certain agenda. Give it a rest. Dredge it up when he’s recovered or maybe, if he doesn’t survive this, after a respectful interval following his death.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ColinWright 7y ago
    I have edited my comment. It now no longer gives his full name, nor mentions all of the documented relationships.
    - Bnshsysjab 7y ago
      I don’t think it’s the full names the parent comment is taking issues with here.
- deanmoriarty 7y ago

mandeepj 7y ago

Why no Chinese politician has contracted Corona? Did they understand the risk from day 1? Heck, none of their other cities were impacted by it but the disease has made its way to London, NYC, and all the major other cities.

haunter 7y ago
How many times have you seen Johnson, Trump, Merkel, Macron etc. in facemask? Whenever they shown Xi Jinping in Wuhan or any member of the politburo visiting hospitals and such they were all wearing masks, sometimes even rubber gloves too.
- nojvek 7y ago
  It’s not the first battle of Chinese with viruses. SARS, bird flu, swine flu. They’ve learnt their lessons. I do hope they get their animal market hygiene together. It’s a bit crazy how many viruses have originated from China.
- rasz 7y ago
  Not to mention they were visiting prop hospitals.

MiguelVieira 7y ago

From the CDC: "Mortality among patients admitted to the ICU ranges from 39% to 72% depending on the study. The median length of hospitalization among survivors was 10 to 13 days."

davidwitt415 7y ago

A few weeks ago, Johnson suggested in public that the US 'take one on the chin' regarding Covid-19. How's that working out for you Boris? I don't care if you think this is inappropriate, because I find it welcome that for once a politician has to personally face the ramifications of his fecklessness. If only more of our leaders would have to face up, we might have real leadership instead of political posturing.

sbeedge 7y ago
Yeah, like, kill them all.
- mtmail 7y ago
  Wishing the death of other people is deeply inappropriate.
thu2111 7y ago
He said the UK needed to do that, not the US. And in case you're in doubt, yes, it's wildly inappropriate. To wish revenge on a politician who has from the start delegated to his own scientific advisors, which is exactly what people wanted politicians to do, is a sick thing. You can go read the same advice he was reading on gov.uk, which states the obvious very clearly: you can't stop a virus with no vaccine by keeping everyone under indefinite house arrest. Even the dubious modellers admit that lockdown doesn't really flatten the curve, it just moves it forward. There's no solution in lockdown and it's wrong to pretend otherwise. Given the information at the time (and still now) the original "let it spread with timed and staged lockdown" strategy was very likely correct. It becomes clearer every day. The hospitals aren't overflowing, the country hasn't run out of ventilators - not even close - and yet the economy is trashed with consequent dire impacts to the future funding of the healthcare system and other public services. The country could clearly be coping with fewer restrictions than it has now. Despite that it's no surprise that the British left may sadly rejoice at Boris' ill fortune. It's hard to forget the parties they threw when Thatcher died.
- DanBC 7y ago

nojvek 7y ago

I hope Boris gets out of this as a new leaf. It’s also a real wake up call to politicians that what they say in public and their policies have serious repercussions. Every decision they make in the current pandemic climate could take or potentially save lives. Some of them being their loved ones.