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Yukihiro Matsumoto, creator of Ruby: > Everyone has an individual background. Someone may come from Python, someone else may come from Perl, and they may be su

Yukihiro Matsumoto, creator of Ruby: > Everyone has an individual background. Someone may come from Python, someone else may come from Perl, and they may be surprised by different aspects of the language. Then they come up to me and say, 'I was surprised by this feature of the language, so Ruby violates the principle of least surprise.' > Wait. Wait. The principle of least surprise is not for you only. The principle of least surprise means principle of least my surprise. And it means the principle of least surprise after you learn Ruby very well. For example, I was a C++ programmer before I started designing Ruby. I programmed in C++ exclusively for two or three years. And after two years of C++ programming, it still surprises me.

edbrown23 7y ago
For what it's worth, I don't think ruby achieves this goal either. I've been programming full time in Ruby for nearly three years and things like this [1] still surprise me. Ruby feels less surprising than C++, sure, but that's a pretty low bar to clear. [1] https://makandracards.com/makandra/46939-ruby-a-small-summary-of-what-return-break-and-next-means-for-blocks https://makandracards.com/makandra/46939-ruby-a-small-summar...
- loopz 7y ago
  Principles of least surprise (or astonishment), is one of cornerstones of Ruby. However, the language itself is dynamic, so take the end result with a pinch of salt: The language's OO syntax is beautifully simple, incredibly easy to structure into classes/mixins and have tons of useful libraries, to write code with. Not always so much for reading code, refactoring or discerning what REALLY goes on in a Rails application..
  - gregkerzhner 7y ago
    I think there is a great middle line for a language that is easy to work with, and provides enough safety to be maintainable for a long time. Environments like C++ and enterprise Java miss this middle line by being too cumbersome. However, Ruby equally misses this middle line, just in the other direction - it's too simple and dynamic leading to lack of maintainability in the long run. The best solution will be somewhere in between.
    - skrebbel 7y ago
      In my opinion, Kotlin, C#, and TypeScript all come pretty close.
- jolmg 7y ago
  My pet-peeve in ruby: '//'.split('/') # => [] instead of ['', '', ''] '/'.split('/') # => [] instead of ['', ''] ''.split('/') # => [] instead of [''] '//'.split('/', -1) # => ['', '', ''] '/'.split('/', -1) # => ['', ''] ''.split('/', -1) # => [] instead of [''] In comparison: "".split("/") # => [""] in javascript "".split("/") # => [""] in python
  - drewcoo 7y ago
    But if "instead of" means "I expected," doesn't that also mean that Javascript and Python don't do what you expected?
    - ithkuil 7y ago
      JS & python both have: '//'.split('/') => [ '', '', '' ] '/'.split('/') => [ '', '' ] '',split('/') => [ '' ] so they indeed produce what parent expected.
- simplify 7y ago
  To be fair, blocks, procs, and methods are fairly fundamental to Ruby. After a bit of study, they stop being surprising. I'm sure there are other examples, though.

edbrown23 7y ago

For what it's worth, I don't think ruby achieves this goal either. I've been programming full time in Ruby for nearly three years and things like this [1] still surprise me. Ruby feels less surprising than C++, sure, but that's a pretty low bar to clear. [1] https://makandracards.com/makandra/46939-ruby-a-small-summary-of-what-return-break-and-next-means-for-blocks https://makandracards.com/makandra/46939-ruby-a-small-summar...

loopz 7y ago
Principles of least surprise (or astonishment), is one of cornerstones of Ruby. However, the language itself is dynamic, so take the end result with a pinch of salt: The language's OO syntax is beautifully simple, incredibly easy to structure into classes/mixins and have tons of useful libraries, to write code with. Not always so much for reading code, refactoring or discerning what REALLY goes on in a Rails application..
- gregkerzhner 7y ago
  I think there is a great middle line for a language that is easy to work with, and provides enough safety to be maintainable for a long time. Environments like C++ and enterprise Java miss this middle line by being too cumbersome. However, Ruby equally misses this middle line, just in the other direction - it's too simple and dynamic leading to lack of maintainability in the long run. The best solution will be somewhere in between.
  - skrebbel 7y ago
    In my opinion, Kotlin, C#, and TypeScript all come pretty close.
jolmg 7y ago
My pet-peeve in ruby: '//'.split('/') # => [] instead of ['', '', ''] '/'.split('/') # => [] instead of ['', ''] ''.split('/') # => [] instead of [''] '//'.split('/', -1) # => ['', '', ''] '/'.split('/', -1) # => ['', ''] ''.split('/', -1) # => [] instead of [''] In comparison: "".split("/") # => [""] in javascript "".split("/") # => [""] in python
- drewcoo 7y ago
  But if "instead of" means "I expected," doesn't that also mean that Javascript and Python don't do what you expected?
  - ithkuil 7y ago
    JS & python both have: '//'.split('/') => [ '', '', '' ] '/'.split('/') => [ '', '' ] '',split('/') => [ '' ] so they indeed produce what parent expected.
simplify 7y ago
To be fair, blocks, procs, and methods are fairly fundamental to Ruby. After a bit of study, they stop being surprising. I'm sure there are other examples, though.