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> I know first hand what it’s like to be a small business owner. As a woman it can be lonely and scary, especially during a time like this. Your sex does not m

> I know first hand what it’s like to be a small business owner. As a woman it can be lonely and scary, especially during a time like this. Your sex does not matter during a time like this. Unless you are suffering from domestic violence, it is less scary to be a woman right now, since you are less affected by COVID-19 than men are. Anyway, everybody should be able to help whoever he or she wants to help, and it is nice that she seemingly does so without strings attached.

monocasa 7y ago
The idea is that women have less access to various support networks that men do, typically referred to as the "boy's club", and therefore create their own replacements.
- haunter 7y ago
  Depends what do you mean by "support networks". Like social? Or just purely economy based. Cause if social then I'd say it's the exact oppopsite, one of the main reason men has 3-4x higher suicide rate than women in the west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    Yes of course, but that's not very relevant. OP is specifically addressing business support, not social networks.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    > Like social? Or just purely economy based. It's both. > Cause if social then I'd say it's the exact oppopsite, one of the main reason men has 3-4x higher suicide rate than women in the west. Those stats are very different depending on the social class. Men have fewer support networks in lower social class, but more in the upper classes. Given that we're talking about business owners, that's the range we're talking about.
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      Small business owners are hardly "upper class".
      - monocasa 7y ago
        The equity involved makes almost all small business owners at least upper middle class.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    I also wonder what percentage of men(or male business owners) believe they are in or have access to a "boy's club"
    - monocasa 7y ago
      Given amount of people I've talked to that believe they pulled themselves up by their boot straps, and then find out they have a trust fund or where able to find a couple hundred thousand from a friends and family fund round, I'm not sure how much that stat matters.
      - oh_sigh 7y ago
        It matters if you're painting women as disadvantaged by not being be part of one, but, say, 99%+ of men don't belong to one. Meanwhile, ignoring women-only support networks(like the kind that gives $5M to female business owners....)
        monocasa 7y ago
        The "boy's club" isn't a formal institution. It's not like something you carry a card for.
        oh_sigh 7y ago
        I don't think anyone ever thought it was
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- allendoerfer 7y ago
  I doubt that boy's clubs will save you right now. But maybe I just have not found the right clubs yet.
- HBKXNCUO 7y ago
  >The idea is that women have less access to various support networks that men do Source? Is there a rigorous definition of a support network, and some statistics showing that women have less access to them?
  - monocasa 7y ago
    Quite a few, here's one example. https://www.nber.org/papers/w26530 https://www.nber.org/papers/w26530
    - HBKXNCUO 7y ago
      >Quite a few Convenient. Where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support group in that article?
      - monocasa 7y ago
        > Convenient. So wait, let me get this straight 'I want an example of a study with data' 'here you go' 'well, well, well isn't that just convenient' From here it feels like you're not approaching this argument in good faith. > Where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support group in that article? They cover their methodology pretty clearly.
        HBKXNCUO 7y ago
        I don't think you could have gotten that less straight. What is convenient is that many definitions exist, so a convenient one can be chosen based on its suitability for making a particular argument at a particular time. >They cover their methodology pretty clearly. OK, but where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support network, which is what I asked about?
KerryJones 7y ago
There is a huge bias against women as can be seen by statistics of women in C-level positions, or on board seats, or as founders. The few that _do_ make it often make a strong point of supporting more -- and many statistics have proven they're often better at long term performance than men. <---- I'm a dude It's continuing the problem by criticizing someone helping women. Regardless of what "time" it is -- it's damn awesome she's willing to help, whoever she helps.
- 0x4477 7y ago
  > There is a huge bias against women as can be seen by statistics of women in C-level positions, or on board seats, or as founders. The presence of a statistical disparity does not automatically indicate malicious discrimination. I don't doubt that there is some amount of sexism present overall, but we're going to need more than uneven gender distribution to make this judgement. What about any other jobs or where women are under- or over-represented, like teaching, or nursing, or construction? Are different gender distributions among those an indication of malicious discrimination or sexism in either direction?
  - KerryJones 7y ago
    ... I didn't say anything about malicious discrimination? That's an obvious strawman argument In fact the problem is exactly the opposite -- it's the lack of awareness that people unknowingly tend to choose people based off "gut feel" that a man will do better. This is well studied and documented and only recently have women started to enter the workforce and based off the few studies that show women in exec positions often do significantly better than the average male who are in those positions. A few articles: - https://www.thebalance.com/do-companies-with-female-executives-perform-better-4586443 https://www.thebalance.com/do-companies-with-female-executiv... - https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/29/women-in-science/ https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/29/women-in-science/ - https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/success/women-ceos-and-cfos-outperform/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/success/women-ceos-and-cfos-o...
- thu2111 7y ago
  Founders? That's because women don't create successful companies at the same rate, but there's no bias stopping them creating firms. That's really one of the few areas you can say for sure, there's no bias. Quite the opposite. It's well known that VC firms fall over themselves at the chance to give a female founder money, it even happens that men take on women as 'co-founders' specifically to make it easier to raise money (I've encountered more than one story like that). She is being criticised, rightfully, because what she's doing is sexism against men. Where's the consistency? Things like this show very bad double standards: women are allowed to openly discriminate against men, without consequences. That's just not right.

monocasa 7y ago

The idea is that women have less access to various support networks that men do, typically referred to as the "boy's club", and therefore create their own replacements.

haunter 7y ago
Depends what do you mean by "support networks". Like social? Or just purely economy based. Cause if social then I'd say it's the exact oppopsite, one of the main reason men has 3-4x higher suicide rate than women in the west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Yes of course, but that's not very relevant. OP is specifically addressing business support, not social networks.
- monocasa 7y ago
  > Like social? Or just purely economy based. It's both. > Cause if social then I'd say it's the exact oppopsite, one of the main reason men has 3-4x higher suicide rate than women in the west. Those stats are very different depending on the social class. Men have fewer support networks in lower social class, but more in the upper classes. Given that we're talking about business owners, that's the range we're talking about.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    Small business owners are hardly "upper class".
    - monocasa 7y ago
      The equity involved makes almost all small business owners at least upper middle class.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  I also wonder what percentage of men(or male business owners) believe they are in or have access to a "boy's club"
  - monocasa 7y ago
    Given amount of people I've talked to that believe they pulled themselves up by their boot straps, and then find out they have a trust fund or where able to find a couple hundred thousand from a friends and family fund round, I'm not sure how much that stat matters.
    - oh_sigh 7y ago
      It matters if you're painting women as disadvantaged by not being be part of one, but, say, 99%+ of men don't belong to one. Meanwhile, ignoring women-only support networks(like the kind that gives $5M to female business owners....)
      - monocasa 7y ago
        The "boy's club" isn't a formal institution. It's not like something you carry a card for.
        oh_sigh 7y ago
        I don't think anyone ever thought it was
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
allendoerfer 7y ago
I doubt that boy's clubs will save you right now. But maybe I just have not found the right clubs yet.
HBKXNCUO 7y ago
>The idea is that women have less access to various support networks that men do Source? Is there a rigorous definition of a support network, and some statistics showing that women have less access to them?
- monocasa 7y ago
  Quite a few, here's one example. https://www.nber.org/papers/w26530 https://www.nber.org/papers/w26530
  - HBKXNCUO 7y ago
    >Quite a few Convenient. Where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support group in that article?
    - monocasa 7y ago
      > Convenient. So wait, let me get this straight 'I want an example of a study with data' 'here you go' 'well, well, well isn't that just convenient' From here it feels like you're not approaching this argument in good faith. > Where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support group in that article? They cover their methodology pretty clearly.
      - HBKXNCUO 7y ago
        I don't think you could have gotten that less straight. What is convenient is that many definitions exist, so a convenient one can be chosen based on its suitability for making a particular argument at a particular time. >They cover their methodology pretty clearly. OK, but where do they suggest a rigorous definition of a support network, which is what I asked about?

KerryJones 7y ago

There is a huge bias against women as can be seen by statistics of women in C-level positions, or on board seats, or as founders. The few that _do_ make it often make a strong point of supporting more -- and many statistics have proven they're often better at long term performance than men. <---- I'm a dude It's continuing the problem by criticizing someone helping women. Regardless of what "time" it is -- it's damn awesome she's willing to help, whoever she helps.

0x4477 7y ago
> There is a huge bias against women as can be seen by statistics of women in C-level positions, or on board seats, or as founders. The presence of a statistical disparity does not automatically indicate malicious discrimination. I don't doubt that there is some amount of sexism present overall, but we're going to need more than uneven gender distribution to make this judgement. What about any other jobs or where women are under- or over-represented, like teaching, or nursing, or construction? Are different gender distributions among those an indication of malicious discrimination or sexism in either direction?
- KerryJones 7y ago
  ... I didn't say anything about malicious discrimination? That's an obvious strawman argument In fact the problem is exactly the opposite -- it's the lack of awareness that people unknowingly tend to choose people based off "gut feel" that a man will do better. This is well studied and documented and only recently have women started to enter the workforce and based off the few studies that show women in exec positions often do significantly better than the average male who are in those positions. A few articles: - https://www.thebalance.com/do-companies-with-female-executives-perform-better-4586443 https://www.thebalance.com/do-companies-with-female-executiv... - https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/29/women-in-science/ https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/29/women-in-science/ - https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/success/women-ceos-and-cfos-outperform/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/success/women-ceos-and-cfos-o...
thu2111 7y ago
Founders? That's because women don't create successful companies at the same rate, but there's no bias stopping them creating firms. That's really one of the few areas you can say for sure, there's no bias. Quite the opposite. It's well known that VC firms fall over themselves at the chance to give a female founder money, it even happens that men take on women as 'co-founders' specifically to make it easier to raise money (I've encountered more than one story like that). She is being criticised, rightfully, because what she's doing is sexism against men. Where's the consistency? Things like this show very bad double standards: women are allowed to openly discriminate against men, without consequences. That's just not right.