3 ms·

> Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients without pneumonia complications That's exactly what they're seeing, and why this article was written: "An

by jobu 7y ago

> Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients without pneumonia complications That's exactly what they're seeing, and why this article was written: "An initial study found cardiac damage in as many as 1 in 5 patients, leading to heart failure and death even among those who show no signs of respiratory distress." Unfortunately the article doesn't say what percent of people with cardiac damage did not have respiratory issues as well.

Fjolsvith 7y ago
From the article: Patients who had heart disease before their coronavirus infections were much more likely to show heart damage afterward. But some patients with no previous heart disease also showed signs of cardiac damage. In fact, patients with no preexisting heart conditions who incurred heart damage during their infection were more likely to die than patients with previous heart disease but no COVID-19-induced cardiac damage. Isn't it likely that the patients who had no preexisting heart conditions actually had undiagnosed preexisting heart conditions?
- solinent 7y ago
  Yeah, this logic is used often in epidemiology, and this thought comes to my head every single time. We also don't probably know all the possible heart conditions out there! Finally, while someone might not have a condition (disease), they also might not have good function of the heart, this is not considered a pre-existing condition. This tends to happen with people who are overweight, leading to arteriosclerosis, but since the norm has moved so far in one direction, our criteria for disease might have moved as well. Finally, the lungs and heart work in coordination to bring oxygen to the rest of the body. If the lungs stop functioning (which may not have direct symptoms that we expect)... I think it's pretty easy to fill in the rest.
- btilly 7y ago
  Worse than undiagnosed, they are unmanaged preexisting heart conditions. If two people have similar heart damage but one knows about it and manages the hypertension that caused it, who is in worse shape if a disease adds stress to your system?
- koheripbal 7y ago
  That's circular logic. If patient A dies of heart failure during a covid-19 infection, you should not be concluding that the patient likely had a heart issue prior to the covid-19 infection. Sure, it might be the case, but you cannot draw any conclusion here unless you compare it to other pneumonia cases.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Your second statement undermines your first.
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      No, I don't think they do. Can you be more specific?
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    The heart damage would be more meaningful in patients who have had clean EKGs prior to being diagnosed with covid-19. Here in the US covid symptoms are most likely causing a good number of adults to see a doctor after decades of no medical checkups or for for the first time.

by jobu 7y ago

Fjolsvith 7y ago

From the article: Patients who had heart disease before their coronavirus infections were much more likely to show heart damage afterward. But some patients with no previous heart disease also showed signs of cardiac damage. In fact, patients with no preexisting heart conditions who incurred heart damage during their infection were more likely to die than patients with previous heart disease but no COVID-19-induced cardiac damage. Isn't it likely that the patients who had no preexisting heart conditions actually had undiagnosed preexisting heart conditions?

solinent 7y ago
Yeah, this logic is used often in epidemiology, and this thought comes to my head every single time. We also don't probably know all the possible heart conditions out there! Finally, while someone might not have a condition (disease), they also might not have good function of the heart, this is not considered a pre-existing condition. This tends to happen with people who are overweight, leading to arteriosclerosis, but since the norm has moved so far in one direction, our criteria for disease might have moved as well. Finally, the lungs and heart work in coordination to bring oxygen to the rest of the body. If the lungs stop functioning (which may not have direct symptoms that we expect)... I think it's pretty easy to fill in the rest.
btilly 7y ago
Worse than undiagnosed, they are unmanaged preexisting heart conditions. If two people have similar heart damage but one knows about it and manages the hypertension that caused it, who is in worse shape if a disease adds stress to your system?
koheripbal 7y ago
That's circular logic. If patient A dies of heart failure during a covid-19 infection, you should not be concluding that the patient likely had a heart issue prior to the covid-19 infection. Sure, it might be the case, but you cannot draw any conclusion here unless you compare it to other pneumonia cases.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  Your second statement undermines your first.
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    No, I don't think they do. Can you be more specific?
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  The heart damage would be more meaningful in patients who have had clean EKGs prior to being diagnosed with covid-19. Here in the US covid symptoms are most likely causing a good number of adults to see a doctor after decades of no medical checkups or for for the first time.