3 ms·

> If this fails, the patient can die. If these patients receive no help, they die anyway. Given the choice between almost certain death or some experimental pi

by bArray 7y ago

> If this fails, the patient can die. If these patients receive no help, they die anyway. Given the choice between almost certain death or some experimental piece of hardware - give me the experimental hardware. > I can't imagine any hospital or doctor careless enough to > connect one of these to a patient, even in this current > emergency. I'm sure they will go through accelerated testing. > The smarter idea is to ramp up existing proven designs, > not reinvent the wheel and basically do a publicity stunt > about your engineering talent. Retooling has an enormous cost too (time and money) - yes the design will be proven but you won't nearly have the tools or expertise to implement them. I'm not a Tesla fan-boy by a far shot, but I don't think they deserve this hate for what is clearly a good effort on their behalf.

steve76 7y ago
> If these patients receive no help, they die anyway. Given the choice between almost certain death or some experimental piece of hardware - give me the experimental hardware. ??? No big deal if the ventilator: kills more people than the disease. contaminates workers. gives you cancer, HIV, MRSA or paralyzes the lung requiring a transplant. ignites and burns people alive from the inside. makes the disease resistant to disinfectants, so contagious areas have to be closed down for decades. sprays out the disease into the hospital ventilation system. ???
coredog64 7y ago
The US already has a model for this though: During WW2, Ford Motor Company didn't stroke Henry Ford's ego by designing and building their own bombers -- they license built B-24s. Yes, retooling costs. But tooling costs as well, and costs more besides. With Elon's PR reach, I would expect that he could get at least one vent manufacturer to license a design to him for a dollar/handshake/whatever.
- gpm 7y ago
  Elon's companies are also in parallel working with an existing manufacturer (Medtronic) to produce vents of their design (or more specifically to produce a part that is a bottleneck in their production). Putting a small percentage of resources to trying out a second model (this one) is just good risk management. Tooling does not cost when they already have it, that is why they are focusing on ways to repurpose parts they are already producing as parts of the ventilator.
- trca 7y ago
  Tesla has partnered with Medtronic to increase their production capacity (https://www.massdevice.com/tesla-to-reopen-new-york-facility-to-manufacture-medtronic-ventilators/ https://www.massdevice.com/tesla-to-reopen-new-york-facility...). So Tesla isn't approaching this as a hackathon project, they've partnered with one of the biggest medical manufacturers who no doubt are offering their resources and expertise in this field, something Tesla obviously has none of which shows that they're trying to prove their serious about helping out
- dehrmann 7y ago
  There are two major differences, though. Cars are much more similar to airplanes than they are to ventilators, and the lead time for the war effort is much longer. We missed the window for rushing experimental ventilators into production. Looking at projections[1], there's about a 5-10 day window to get these into the hands of doctors. China donating 1000 ventilators to NYC is a much bigger deal. 1: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-where-is-the-us-on-the-curve/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-where-is...
  - astrodust 7y ago
    Cars are about as similar to airplanes as airplanes are to washing machines. Airplanes are exponentially more complicated than cars.
- dehrmann 7y ago
  Because you said Ford, he was an anti-Semite, and his company was also part of the Nazi war machine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/n... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryfo...
- sergiosgc 7y ago
  It took two years for Ford to start producing B-24s, leading credence to the time-cost of retooling. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Run https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Run

by bArray 7y ago

steve76 7y ago

> If these patients receive no help, they die anyway. Given the choice between almost certain death or some experimental piece of hardware - give me the experimental hardware. ??? No big deal if the ventilator: kills more people than the disease. contaminates workers. gives you cancer, HIV, MRSA or paralyzes the lung requiring a transplant. ignites and burns people alive from the inside. makes the disease resistant to disinfectants, so contagious areas have to be closed down for decades. sprays out the disease into the hospital ventilation system. ???

coredog64 7y ago

The US already has a model for this though: During WW2, Ford Motor Company didn't stroke Henry Ford's ego by designing and building their own bombers -- they license built B-24s. Yes, retooling costs. But tooling costs as well, and costs more besides. With Elon's PR reach, I would expect that he could get at least one vent manufacturer to license a design to him for a dollar/handshake/whatever.

gpm 7y ago
Elon's companies are also in parallel working with an existing manufacturer (Medtronic) to produce vents of their design (or more specifically to produce a part that is a bottleneck in their production). Putting a small percentage of resources to trying out a second model (this one) is just good risk management. Tooling does not cost when they already have it, that is why they are focusing on ways to repurpose parts they are already producing as parts of the ventilator.
trca 7y ago
Tesla has partnered with Medtronic to increase their production capacity (https://www.massdevice.com/tesla-to-reopen-new-york-facility-to-manufacture-medtronic-ventilators/ https://www.massdevice.com/tesla-to-reopen-new-york-facility...). So Tesla isn't approaching this as a hackathon project, they've partnered with one of the biggest medical manufacturers who no doubt are offering their resources and expertise in this field, something Tesla obviously has none of which shows that they're trying to prove their serious about helping out
dehrmann 7y ago
There are two major differences, though. Cars are much more similar to airplanes than they are to ventilators, and the lead time for the war effort is much longer. We missed the window for rushing experimental ventilators into production. Looking at projections[1], there's about a 5-10 day window to get these into the hands of doctors. China donating 1000 ventilators to NYC is a much bigger deal. 1: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-where-is-the-us-on-the-curve/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-where-is...
- astrodust 7y ago
  Cars are about as similar to airplanes as airplanes are to washing machines. Airplanes are exponentially more complicated than cars.
dehrmann 7y ago
Because you said Ford, he was an anti-Semite, and his company was also part of the Nazi war machine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/n... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryfo...
sergiosgc 7y ago
It took two years for Ford to start producing B-24s, leading credence to the time-cost of retooling. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Run https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Run