4 ms·

"maybe you already got what you came for." As someone who frequently starts projects and doesn't finish them, I've wondered if the part I enjoy about the proje

"maybe you already got what you came for." As someone who frequently starts projects and doesn't finish them, I've wondered if the part I enjoy about the project is the dreaming about what could be. That little rush you get when a new idea is upon you and it's all you can think about for x days. Doing the initial research and formulating a plan. This is a dopamine rush for me. The feeling of being laser focused for those few days is invigorating. The start of something new, the potential for life changing work. It usually stops there. Maybe that's what I came for.

quickthrower2 6y ago
I found having an ideas sheet is good for this. You can know the idea is recorded and that removes the desire to immediately work on it. And you can later logically choose the best thing to work on from the list
- itronitron 6y ago
  Yeah, I recommend keeping a sketchbook/journal to write down and plan out the side-projects, then when you have more available time pick which one to start on given how feasible and interesting they are now. From my own experience I have found that if something still sounds interesting two months after writing it down then it's something worth spending time on.
badloginagain 6y ago
FWIW I've found that there is a cross section between excitement of a new project and the momentum of that project. Most projects fizz out when the excitement wears off before the amount of work you've already done on it has enough momentum to push you to do one more task. When I push though that motivational hurdle, I find the amount of work already done incentives to continue on with it. The next task is obvious and relatively easy, because there is something to work with. Now, losing confidence that everything you've written is garbage and refactoring the same systems over and over again until you give up- that's the hurdle I choke on :D
- arosier 6y ago
  Agreed, I have found that as well. I have tried to define how much momentum I need to stay engaged. For instance, I started a YouTube channel. The process of creating videos was a short enough feedback loop (a few days max to start/finish a video) that I was able to stay engaged for longer than normal. I fed off of each finished video as the momentum to keep working on the project of "growing an audience around a topic I was passionate about". I have also found that I am able to stay engaged in other applications where I have a shorter feedback loop, to maintain momentum.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    That's a great example. I experienced something similar with my side project, which was a music magazine app, similar in concept to the (failed) iPad interactive magazine projects that were all the rage back in 2012 or so. It was very challenging to build something that scaled to phones and tablets while having a magazine-type aesthetic (compartmentalized information on each discrete page). In the end, I abandoned it, and decided to create mini-zines and post them to Instagram as slideshows. Zero interactivity, but they're orders of magnitude faster to make, layout is constrained to IG's 1:1 aspect ratio and and I already have the artboards as I used Sketch to build my static mockups.
    - tartoran 6y ago
      I think you made a good saving of the initial investment and still managed to to publish your content which is mission accomplished. In fact you're likely to be consumed from IG. I also tend to go to the path of least resistance and do things in batches and the simplest way possible but concentrate on the most important aspect of it, the content. In the end this is the winner solution for me, if I were to take the long road I would most likely stumble upon details that are not important. If they are important there's a possibility to fix one aspect or another.
      - rchaud 6y ago
        True, I was stumbling on details constantly. Page load times, optimizing for screen sizes (this was a no-scroll, pure swipe-based mag), and it was very discouraging. And you're also right about IG, people actually saw it and it would come up if people searched the tags. As a passion project, that's 70% of what I wanted. That remaining 30% probably wouldn't have been worth the effort.
jasonv 6y ago
I was reading a book called "You're Not Crazy - You're Codependent" (not relevant, except the source of what comes next in my comment) wherein the author made a distinction between "dreaming" and "fantasizing", the latter being destructive (in some cases) or unsatisfying. I feel the distinction is valuable for me, but I've also been helping my teenager work through his challenges wherein he hits the first speed bump and invariably gives up on something. Getting "through" the challenge has been a learning process for him. He realizes he doesn't want to kick things up over and over again, only to hit the first roadblock and then lose interest.
- spookybones 6y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. The rush from the possibility versus the actuality applies to relationships as well.
- arosier 6y ago
  Interesting distinction between "dreaming" and "fantasizing". Does the author define the two as the same process with the only difference being the effect the action has on you (e.g. destructive/unsatisfying)?
  - jasonv 6y ago
    I don't have access to the text right now, but when you consider the literal definition of "fantasizing", it's pretty heavy: "to imagine things only possible in fantasy"
StavrosK 6y ago
I frequently think about how lucky I am that my dopamine rush is linked to seeing projects finished. People ask me how I get so much done, but there really isn't much of an answer other than "I like doing them and I enjoy seeing them finished". Here's a beeping ball toy I made for my blind cat yesterday: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-ml-2KgjsW/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B-ml-2KgjsW/
- dlivingston 6y ago
  Very cool! How did you make this? I wonder if having the vocalizations of a prey animal (i.e. mouse) would provoke a stronger response in your cat than a generic beeping.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    I used an ESP8255, a motion sensor (a spring in a tube with metal walls) and a buzzer. Something better-sounding than a beep would definitely be preferable, but I don't think the buzzer can really play anything other than a beep... I'll have to do some research, maybe it can do some rough approximation, thanks for the idea!
agumonkey 6y ago
I'd bet a few dollars that this is the most common answer. A little piece of anecdata, being stuck, jobless and confidentless due to too much of this dopamine rush theory, i did propose to write something for my 'boss', at a food store, a little single user vue app [0]. a few conclusion : - i did actually deliver something functional (for a change) - i still had twenty thousand dreamy ideas (as noted in a lengthy TODO file) - doing something for someone else changes our your brain rolls. you dream less because you want to make them happy - it was painful at times, dealing with constraints - but solving these was a good feeling. a bit less exciting but longer lasting. a feeling of knowing more and deeper (much unlike dreamy brainstorming) - it makes you operate for true progress, you aim at surgical advances instead of abstract designs. that is a great thing. sobering my 2 cents [0] the theory behind it was that I'd do something simple, without pressure, that I may sell, or at least put on my resume (vuejs being trendy)..
- mcdevilkiller 6y ago
  I feel so related to the third point.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    I think it's a subtle but important one actually, the dopamine rush is a bit a self pleasuring quest, so thinking for others is already a step in the right direction That's also an idea I keep having about general adult life, career and happiness. Youth is all about intense self satisfaction, but running this race too long is a dead end, and it should be hinted that working for other citizen is actually a good thing for you (because it avoids this dead end)
pharke 6y ago
As someone who tends to do the same, I don't think this is a good description of what is happening. The way I view it is that any project has the same progression of initial excitement, frenzied work and determination, discovery of the real scope, the descent into the Valley of Despair as you continue to wrestle with the problem and then the fork in the road where you either give up and abandon the work or you persevere through the Dark Forest of Unknowns where your progress is often measured in inches until you climb the Hill of Competency where you can again make meaningful gains and catch a second wind until you enter the Swamp of Drudgery where you again must slog your way through until you reach the base of Mount Perfection where you can finally ship it.
- mcdevilkiller 6y ago
  exactly what I feel
- arosier 6y ago
  Ya, sometimes I follow this path as well. I like how you put it.
Gustomaximus 6y ago
I like this too. At the same time is this only making you feel better and not addressing the problem? You definitely dont want to beat yourself over losing interest in side project. This is something many people including myself do, especially when side projects are a hobby. But if you want the side project to be more than 'a hobby' you still need to address staying power.

quickthrower2 6y ago

I found having an ideas sheet is good for this. You can know the idea is recorded and that removes the desire to immediately work on it. And you can later logically choose the best thing to work on from the list

itronitron 6y ago
Yeah, I recommend keeping a sketchbook/journal to write down and plan out the side-projects, then when you have more available time pick which one to start on given how feasible and interesting they are now. From my own experience I have found that if something still sounds interesting two months after writing it down then it's something worth spending time on.

badloginagain 6y ago

FWIW I've found that there is a cross section between excitement of a new project and the momentum of that project. Most projects fizz out when the excitement wears off before the amount of work you've already done on it has enough momentum to push you to do one more task. When I push though that motivational hurdle, I find the amount of work already done incentives to continue on with it. The next task is obvious and relatively easy, because there is something to work with. Now, losing confidence that everything you've written is garbage and refactoring the same systems over and over again until you give up- that's the hurdle I choke on :D

arosier 6y ago
Agreed, I have found that as well. I have tried to define how much momentum I need to stay engaged. For instance, I started a YouTube channel. The process of creating videos was a short enough feedback loop (a few days max to start/finish a video) that I was able to stay engaged for longer than normal. I fed off of each finished video as the momentum to keep working on the project of "growing an audience around a topic I was passionate about". I have also found that I am able to stay engaged in other applications where I have a shorter feedback loop, to maintain momentum.
- rchaud 6y ago
  That's a great example. I experienced something similar with my side project, which was a music magazine app, similar in concept to the (failed) iPad interactive magazine projects that were all the rage back in 2012 or so. It was very challenging to build something that scaled to phones and tablets while having a magazine-type aesthetic (compartmentalized information on each discrete page). In the end, I abandoned it, and decided to create mini-zines and post them to Instagram as slideshows. Zero interactivity, but they're orders of magnitude faster to make, layout is constrained to IG's 1:1 aspect ratio and and I already have the artboards as I used Sketch to build my static mockups.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    I think you made a good saving of the initial investment and still managed to to publish your content which is mission accomplished. In fact you're likely to be consumed from IG. I also tend to go to the path of least resistance and do things in batches and the simplest way possible but concentrate on the most important aspect of it, the content. In the end this is the winner solution for me, if I were to take the long road I would most likely stumble upon details that are not important. If they are important there's a possibility to fix one aspect or another.
    - rchaud 6y ago
      True, I was stumbling on details constantly. Page load times, optimizing for screen sizes (this was a no-scroll, pure swipe-based mag), and it was very discouraging. And you're also right about IG, people actually saw it and it would come up if people searched the tags. As a passion project, that's 70% of what I wanted. That remaining 30% probably wouldn't have been worth the effort.

jasonv 6y ago

I was reading a book called "You're Not Crazy - You're Codependent" (not relevant, except the source of what comes next in my comment) wherein the author made a distinction between "dreaming" and "fantasizing", the latter being destructive (in some cases) or unsatisfying. I feel the distinction is valuable for me, but I've also been helping my teenager work through his challenges wherein he hits the first speed bump and invariably gives up on something. Getting "through" the challenge has been a learning process for him. He realizes he doesn't want to kick things up over and over again, only to hit the first roadblock and then lose interest.

spookybones 6y ago
I was thinking the same thing. The rush from the possibility versus the actuality applies to relationships as well.
arosier 6y ago
Interesting distinction between "dreaming" and "fantasizing". Does the author define the two as the same process with the only difference being the effect the action has on you (e.g. destructive/unsatisfying)?
- jasonv 6y ago
  I don't have access to the text right now, but when you consider the literal definition of "fantasizing", it's pretty heavy: "to imagine things only possible in fantasy"

StavrosK 6y ago

I frequently think about how lucky I am that my dopamine rush is linked to seeing projects finished. People ask me how I get so much done, but there really isn't much of an answer other than "I like doing them and I enjoy seeing them finished". Here's a beeping ball toy I made for my blind cat yesterday: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-ml-2KgjsW/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B-ml-2KgjsW/

dlivingston 6y ago
Very cool! How did you make this? I wonder if having the vocalizations of a prey animal (i.e. mouse) would provoke a stronger response in your cat than a generic beeping.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  I used an ESP8255, a motion sensor (a spring in a tube with metal walls) and a buzzer. Something better-sounding than a beep would definitely be preferable, but I don't think the buzzer can really play anything other than a beep... I'll have to do some research, maybe it can do some rough approximation, thanks for the idea!

agumonkey 6y ago

I'd bet a few dollars that this is the most common answer. A little piece of anecdata, being stuck, jobless and confidentless due to too much of this dopamine rush theory, i did propose to write something for my 'boss', at a food store, a little single user vue app [0]. a few conclusion : - i did actually deliver something functional (for a change) - i still had twenty thousand dreamy ideas (as noted in a lengthy TODO file) - doing something for someone else changes our your brain rolls. you dream less because you want to make them happy - it was painful at times, dealing with constraints - but solving these was a good feeling. a bit less exciting but longer lasting. a feeling of knowing more and deeper (much unlike dreamy brainstorming) - it makes you operate for true progress, you aim at surgical advances instead of abstract designs. that is a great thing. sobering my 2 cents [0] the theory behind it was that I'd do something simple, without pressure, that I may sell, or at least put on my resume (vuejs being trendy)..

mcdevilkiller 6y ago
I feel so related to the third point.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  I think it's a subtle but important one actually, the dopamine rush is a bit a self pleasuring quest, so thinking for others is already a step in the right direction That's also an idea I keep having about general adult life, career and happiness. Youth is all about intense self satisfaction, but running this race too long is a dead end, and it should be hinted that working for other citizen is actually a good thing for you (because it avoids this dead end)

pharke 6y ago

As someone who tends to do the same, I don't think this is a good description of what is happening. The way I view it is that any project has the same progression of initial excitement, frenzied work and determination, discovery of the real scope, the descent into the Valley of Despair as you continue to wrestle with the problem and then the fork in the road where you either give up and abandon the work or you persevere through the Dark Forest of Unknowns where your progress is often measured in inches until you climb the Hill of Competency where you can again make meaningful gains and catch a second wind until you enter the Swamp of Drudgery where you again must slog your way through until you reach the base of Mount Perfection where you can finally ship it.

mcdevilkiller 6y ago
exactly what I feel
arosier 6y ago
Ya, sometimes I follow this path as well. I like how you put it.

Gustomaximus 6y ago

I like this too. At the same time is this only making you feel better and not addressing the problem? You definitely dont want to beat yourself over losing interest in side project. This is something many people including myself do, especially when side projects are a hobby. But if you want the side project to be more than 'a hobby' you still need to address staying power.