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> What do I do? I was in a similar situation but with some minor differences, and without getting too far into the weeds or revealing too much information: do

> What do I do? I was in a similar situation but with some minor differences, and without getting too far into the weeds or revealing too much information: do whatever he asks, and ask him to clarify and be very intentional in everything. Be polite, be respectful, and most of all be responsive. If obvious whistle-blower type behavior emerges (as in he's obviously breaking the law or violating agreements) then take advantage of your company's means of reporting that. If he does do something that's illegal or near it, respectfully tell him that you don't feel comfortable doing that and ask for alternative ways of doing things that wouldn't require you to make those decisions. If he's spying on you, just accept and ignore it. Here's what I learned the hard way: guys like that weed themselves out eventually. The lack of competency will surface and become clear to his bosses. The overall goal of the company is to turn a profit and anything that jeopardizes that (illegal/bad behavior, bad press, lost revenue/profit, etc) will be removed. It may not happen as fast as you'd like but it will happen.

tucaz 7y ago
I have been through the same situation and dealt with it in the same way. It’s actually a very interesting and “easy” situation to handle if you are more outspoken than not. Communicate everything in writing, even after a voice conversation. Answer only the questions you are asked. State that you will do as told but also mention anything you don’t agree with (in writing) and ask for specific directions. Halt work at every possible point and raise questions at every single possible deviation from the original direction. Don’t solve any problems on your own. Eventually this person will either fail by directing every single task on his own or will give up doing it because of the amount of work it takes to direct someone when you are micromanaging. I usually use my supervisors strategy against them. If they ask for documents, I bury them in paper work. If they micromanage and don’t listen I do exactly as told even if everyone else knows it won’t work. This is a game of patience and people are not stupid. They will see what’s happening.
- burntoutfire 7y ago
  > I usually use my supervisors strategy against them. If they ask for documents, I bury them in paper work I like this idea in general, but in this particular case, what's stopping them from just not reading them? They can keep asking for docs and not reading them without inflicting any pain on themselves.
  - tucaz 7y ago
    That is usually what happens. They don't read it. But then, the next time they ask for something along the same lines I can find a way to point to the previous document that wasn't read and they give up asking because they know I will keep pointing out they didn't read it.
  - marktangotango 7y ago
    I suspect the conversation then becomes; Task X is taking longer due to documentation requirement. Personally I'd use it as cover to slow way tf down :)
nicoburns 7y ago
This seems pretty passive aggressive. Wouldn't it be better to be proactive and bring it to their attention of their manager directly? i.e. request a private with problematic person's manager and outline concerns. Generally you shouldn't go over your manager's head, but when that person is the problem then in my mind that's an exception. If it goes badly then it is time to start looking for a new job. But if you have a reasonable company culture then it shouldn't do. This is why employees (even senior ones) have managers.
- joelaaronseely 7y ago
  Yeah...no. In the situation I was in, I tried this. Only to find out that my supervisor's manager was sleeping with her. Worse yet, he gave her the password to his e-mail and she was reviewing them when he was travelling - including the one where I asked to have a meeting when he got back (and the reasons why). It got unpleasant for awhile, but I was fortunately able to move to another group and watch from afar as the sandcastle she and her paramour had created crumble around them. They were both asked to leave at the next round of layoffs.
- clort 7y ago
  I'm sure I read a story like this on HN only a few months ago. Unfortunately, the new guy was put in place because he had previous connections with the upper levels. So, that didn't go well. Realistically, the new guy is the manager. His managers put him in place because they thought he was the best for the job. Perhaps for reasons we don't know about, perhaps they are incompetent or perhaps they think he is the best thing since sliced bread and he misled them. I appreciate your exception 'if you have a reasonable company culture' but the truth is that of the ones that do, some of it is faked and I think the likelihood of bringing their failure to their attention and having them appreciate it is actually quite low. If I thought somebody was listening in to my private conversations I might start having false private conversations and see if they pick up on that. If they do then that might be a crime of its own.
austincheney 7y ago
Agreed but ensure much of that communication is through email. Email provides two legal qualities: evidence and nonrepudiation. If there comes a time when there is an investigation of malpractice, ethics, or a crime all you have to say is that you put everything in email. The company can retrieve the evidence as necessary or obtain the subpoenas as necessary without voluntary disclosure on your part.

tucaz 7y ago

I have been through the same situation and dealt with it in the same way. It’s actually a very interesting and “easy” situation to handle if you are more outspoken than not. Communicate everything in writing, even after a voice conversation. Answer only the questions you are asked. State that you will do as told but also mention anything you don’t agree with (in writing) and ask for specific directions. Halt work at every possible point and raise questions at every single possible deviation from the original direction. Don’t solve any problems on your own. Eventually this person will either fail by directing every single task on his own or will give up doing it because of the amount of work it takes to direct someone when you are micromanaging. I usually use my supervisors strategy against them. If they ask for documents, I bury them in paper work. If they micromanage and don’t listen I do exactly as told even if everyone else knows it won’t work. This is a game of patience and people are not stupid. They will see what’s happening.

burntoutfire 7y ago
> I usually use my supervisors strategy against them. If they ask for documents, I bury them in paper work I like this idea in general, but in this particular case, what's stopping them from just not reading them? They can keep asking for docs and not reading them without inflicting any pain on themselves.
- tucaz 7y ago
  That is usually what happens. They don't read it. But then, the next time they ask for something along the same lines I can find a way to point to the previous document that wasn't read and they give up asking because they know I will keep pointing out they didn't read it.
- marktangotango 7y ago
  I suspect the conversation then becomes; Task X is taking longer due to documentation requirement. Personally I'd use it as cover to slow way tf down :)

nicoburns 7y ago

This seems pretty passive aggressive. Wouldn't it be better to be proactive and bring it to their attention of their manager directly? i.e. request a private with problematic person's manager and outline concerns. Generally you shouldn't go over your manager's head, but when that person is the problem then in my mind that's an exception. If it goes badly then it is time to start looking for a new job. But if you have a reasonable company culture then it shouldn't do. This is why employees (even senior ones) have managers.

joelaaronseely 7y ago
Yeah...no. In the situation I was in, I tried this. Only to find out that my supervisor's manager was sleeping with her. Worse yet, he gave her the password to his e-mail and she was reviewing them when he was travelling - including the one where I asked to have a meeting when he got back (and the reasons why). It got unpleasant for awhile, but I was fortunately able to move to another group and watch from afar as the sandcastle she and her paramour had created crumble around them. They were both asked to leave at the next round of layoffs.
clort 7y ago
I'm sure I read a story like this on HN only a few months ago. Unfortunately, the new guy was put in place because he had previous connections with the upper levels. So, that didn't go well. Realistically, the new guy is the manager. His managers put him in place because they thought he was the best for the job. Perhaps for reasons we don't know about, perhaps they are incompetent or perhaps they think he is the best thing since sliced bread and he misled them. I appreciate your exception 'if you have a reasonable company culture' but the truth is that of the ones that do, some of it is faked and I think the likelihood of bringing their failure to their attention and having them appreciate it is actually quite low. If I thought somebody was listening in to my private conversations I might start having false private conversations and see if they pick up on that. If they do then that might be a crime of its own.

austincheney 7y ago

Agreed but ensure much of that communication is through email. Email provides two legal qualities: evidence and nonrepudiation. If there comes a time when there is an investigation of malpractice, ethics, or a crime all you have to say is that you put everything in email. The company can retrieve the evidence as necessary or obtain the subpoenas as necessary without voluntary disclosure on your part.