5 ms·

Can you explain how exactly it is “dangerous”?

by jpxw 7y ago

freehunter 7y ago
Speculation on treatments for Covid-19 has already killed people: https://ktla.com/news/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-form-of-chloroquine-used-for-aquariums-in-apparent-attempt-to-treat-coronavirus/amp/ https://ktla.com/news/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-form-of-...
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  Speculation is fine; this guy died from self-medicating. There is a difference. We shouldn't resort to censoring to protect stupid people.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- trentnix 7y ago
  Guess what? ALL discussion about treatments for Covid-19 is speculation. That a Darwin award winner and his insane, political activist wife, neither of whom had Covid-19, ingested toxic chemicals (probably after indulging in mind altering chemicals) is not very good evidence that discussion on Hacker News should be curtailed in any way.
- PaulHoule 7y ago
  Don't mess with pet meds no matter how tempting it may be. We have horses so we have phenylbutazone which is tempting to use instead of aspirin, ivermectin which you might be tempted to use instead of otc parental for roundworms, also a huge jar of thyroid hormone that might help you lose weight. I stay away.
- jpxw 7y ago
  This man was killed because he drank fish tank cleaner. Frankly, I don’t believe his death is causally linked to certain people speculating that hydroxychlorouine might be an effective treatment.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    So he came up with the idea of drinking this chemical by himself?
- catalogia 7y ago
  Censoring comment sections on HN just because one moron in a million might take it upon themselves to do something stupid and get themselves killed? Have you heard of the expression "the cure is worse than the disease"? It applies as much to what you and cowpig are proposing as it does to what that man chose to do.
- jshevek 7y ago
  All events are the result of a complex web of causal histories. The choice of which factors to focus on sometimes depend on the biases of the speaker. In this case, a Darwin award seems more appropriate to me than blaming anyone for speculating based on low quality data.
cowpig 7y ago
Speculating about how the virus works on the internet, especially in the confident kind of tone I'm seeing in this comment section, leads people to take that speculation as fact, repeat it, and then you have misinformation spreading on an ongoing health crisis that people use to inform decisions they make in their lives which affect themselves and others. I am not a doctor myself, but I am dating one, and helped her prepare for her (likely endless) shift in the COVID-19 unit at the hospital two weekends ago. I was shocked at how much more serious the health effects were than the internet had led me to believe, and I don't use facebook avoid low-quality journalism.
- jpxw 7y ago
  There’s definitely some danger in people downplaying this virus, I totally agree. But I don’t see that happening in this comment section. I see people discussing how the virus might work, and trying to explain why these examples have been observed.
  - cowpig 7y ago
    That is the HN-equivalent of the same thing. I've heard multiple doctors tell me their worst patients are the smartest ones, because they're used to thinking for themselves and then make dangerous modifications to their advice without understanding all of the reasoning and context behind it (which they cannot explain in a sitting).
  - claytongulick 7y ago
    There's a possibly equal danger of exaggerating the severity of the virus, which we may be experiencing right now. Bias towards either direction is still bias. Educated discussion and critical thought are all we can rely on. If that leads us to the conclusion (as it has led me) that the severity of this disease has been inflated, I think that's a worthy topic of debate and evaluation. Not a taboo subject to be avoided "because someone somewhere might not take it seriously enough and then do something stupid".
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  This could be said about any time, any disease, or well... anything ever on internet. I for one am glad folks share their opinions here, if one can't distinguish between speculations, opinions and facts then problem lies elsewhere. I too have my wife a doctor, and I was shocked how little and behind-the-curve their covid infection information is. Most specialist doctors here treated covid in 'what the heck are people worried about, just another flu, right' fashion till maybe 2 weeks ago. Mind you, we talk about Switzerland here with northern italy 50-100km from here, and experts in their (non-virology) fields like urology surgeon, nephrologist, radiologist, emergency doctor(!) and so on. For once, thank you internet and (also) HN users!
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
I don't get it either; it's a comment section on the internet, not people writing medical scientific papers about the subject.

Can you explain how exactly it is “dangerous”?

by jpxw 7y ago

Can you explain how exactly it is “dangerous”?

Speculation on treatments for Covid-19 has already killed people: https://ktla.com/news/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-form-of-chloroquine-used-for-aquariums-in-apparent-attempt-to-treat-coronavirus/amp/ https://ktla.com/news/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-form-of-...

Cthulhu_ 7y ago
Speculation is fine; this guy died from self-medicating. There is a difference. We shouldn't resort to censoring to protect stupid people.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
trentnix 7y ago
Guess what? ALL discussion about treatments for Covid-19 is speculation. That a Darwin award winner and his insane, political activist wife, neither of whom had Covid-19, ingested toxic chemicals (probably after indulging in mind altering chemicals) is not very good evidence that discussion on Hacker News should be curtailed in any way.
PaulHoule 7y ago
Don't mess with pet meds no matter how tempting it may be. We have horses so we have phenylbutazone which is tempting to use instead of aspirin, ivermectin which you might be tempted to use instead of otc parental for roundworms, also a huge jar of thyroid hormone that might help you lose weight. I stay away.
jpxw 7y ago
This man was killed because he drank fish tank cleaner. Frankly, I don’t believe his death is causally linked to certain people speculating that hydroxychlorouine might be an effective treatment.
- freehunter 7y ago
  So he came up with the idea of drinking this chemical by himself?
catalogia 7y ago
Censoring comment sections on HN just because one moron in a million might take it upon themselves to do something stupid and get themselves killed? Have you heard of the expression "the cure is worse than the disease"? It applies as much to what you and cowpig are proposing as it does to what that man chose to do.
jshevek 7y ago
All events are the result of a complex web of causal histories. The choice of which factors to focus on sometimes depend on the biases of the speaker. In this case, a Darwin award seems more appropriate to me than blaming anyone for speculating based on low quality data.

cowpig 7y ago

Speculating about how the virus works on the internet, especially in the confident kind of tone I'm seeing in this comment section, leads people to take that speculation as fact, repeat it, and then you have misinformation spreading on an ongoing health crisis that people use to inform decisions they make in their lives which affect themselves and others. I am not a doctor myself, but I am dating one, and helped her prepare for her (likely endless) shift in the COVID-19 unit at the hospital two weekends ago. I was shocked at how much more serious the health effects were than the internet had led me to believe, and I don't use facebook avoid low-quality journalism.

jpxw 7y ago
There’s definitely some danger in people downplaying this virus, I totally agree. But I don’t see that happening in this comment section. I see people discussing how the virus might work, and trying to explain why these examples have been observed.
- cowpig 7y ago
  That is the HN-equivalent of the same thing. I've heard multiple doctors tell me their worst patients are the smartest ones, because they're used to thinking for themselves and then make dangerous modifications to their advice without understanding all of the reasoning and context behind it (which they cannot explain in a sitting).
- claytongulick 7y ago
  There's a possibly equal danger of exaggerating the severity of the virus, which we may be experiencing right now. Bias towards either direction is still bias. Educated discussion and critical thought are all we can rely on. If that leads us to the conclusion (as it has led me) that the severity of this disease has been inflated, I think that's a worthy topic of debate and evaluation. Not a taboo subject to be avoided "because someone somewhere might not take it seriously enough and then do something stupid".
saiya-jin 7y ago
This could be said about any time, any disease, or well... anything ever on internet. I for one am glad folks share their opinions here, if one can't distinguish between speculations, opinions and facts then problem lies elsewhere. I too have my wife a doctor, and I was shocked how little and behind-the-curve their covid infection information is. Most specialist doctors here treated covid in 'what the heck are people worried about, just another flu, right' fashion till maybe 2 weeks ago. Mind you, we talk about Switzerland here with northern italy 50-100km from here, and experts in their (non-virology) fields like urology surgeon, nephrologist, radiologist, emergency doctor(!) and so on. For once, thank you internet and (also) HN users!

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

I don't get it either; it's a comment section on the internet, not people writing medical scientific papers about the subject.