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If someone’s house is robbed because their front door was left unlocked you might admonish them for poor security practices, but no one really debates that the

If someone’s house is robbed because their front door was left unlocked you might admonish them for poor security practices, but no one really debates that the robber was in the wrong and committed a crime.

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
leaving the front door, or your parked car window open, or your wallet on the table when visiting the toilet in the pub is illegal, and you can get fined for it in most countries. edit: couple of sources: AU: https://www.examiner.com.au/story/442855/police-warning-over-car-window/ https://www.examiner.com.au/story/442855/police-warning-over... DE: https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/panorama/Ein-offenes-Autofenster-kann-teuer-werden-id38919827.html https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/panorama/Ein-offenes-Au...
- RIMR 7y ago
  I am pretty certain that this isn't true. At least the "most countries" part. How would they even catch you? Do you live somewhere where the police go door-to-door checking locks? Because that's terrifying...
  - deleted 7y ago
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- tych0 7y ago
  Citation very much needed. I've done all of these things in the rural midwest for many years. A lot of times I didn't even take the keys out of the ignition.
- belltaco 7y ago
  Is robbing a house with the front door open, or unlocked car or stealing wallet left on table legal in those countries?
- openasocket 7y ago
  To be clear, that isn't something in all of AU, it's a local law in Tasmania: "The regulation was introduced to the Tasmanian Traffic Regulations in November 2009". And I'm not positive about the German article, but it seems to imply that's a local Munich ordnance. Oh, and none of this contradicts the main point, which is that nothing in those articles suggests that robbing an unlocked car is legal. EDIT: though interestingly, at least in some municipalities breaking into an unlocked car may be a lesser crime than forcibly breaking into a locked car. Still a crime, but basically you're charged simply with stealing rather than some sort of breaking and entering.
RIMR 7y ago
Well, that's theft, which is entirely separate from intrusion. Let's say you left your front door unlocked overnight, and a teenager opened it and screamed "LEROY JENKINS!" as loud as he could into your home, waking your whole family up, before closing the door and running away. Would you really say that the teenager deserves to be charged with trespassing or B&E for this? Is jail really the answer to this transgression? If it happened every night, wouldn't you mostly be to blame for never locking your door, especially after experiencing first-hand what happens when you do not? If Zoom is an analogy for your home, then imagine that your landlord refuses to put an actual lock on the door of your apartment, even after you tell him that people are opening it and screaming into your home. With that said, most computer intrusions don't include theft or damages of any kind, so theft really isn't a great analogy. If someone does damage, they have done more than simply intrude. And if you refuse to take steps to prevent these things from happening, the more it happens, the more it becomes your fault (of the fault of whoever is in charge).
- tomnipotent 7y ago
  > Would you really say that the teenager deserves to be charged with trespassing or B&E for this? Absolutely yes, so that they can learn stupid stuff like this is not tolerated. What if in the middle of that B&E the homeowner shoots the harmless kid? This idea that petty crimes are tolerable so long as the perpetrator has a "good intentions" is pure irresponsible silliness.
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    [deleted]

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago

leaving the front door, or your parked car window open, or your wallet on the table when visiting the toilet in the pub is illegal, and you can get fined for it in most countries. edit: couple of sources: AU: https://www.examiner.com.au/story/442855/police-warning-over-car-window/ https://www.examiner.com.au/story/442855/police-warning-over... DE: https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/panorama/Ein-offenes-Autofenster-kann-teuer-werden-id38919827.html https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/panorama/Ein-offenes-Au...

RIMR 7y ago
I am pretty certain that this isn't true. At least the "most countries" part. How would they even catch you? Do you live somewhere where the police go door-to-door checking locks? Because that's terrifying...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
tych0 7y ago
Citation very much needed. I've done all of these things in the rural midwest for many years. A lot of times I didn't even take the keys out of the ignition.
belltaco 7y ago
Is robbing a house with the front door open, or unlocked car or stealing wallet left on table legal in those countries?
openasocket 7y ago
To be clear, that isn't something in all of AU, it's a local law in Tasmania: "The regulation was introduced to the Tasmanian Traffic Regulations in November 2009". And I'm not positive about the German article, but it seems to imply that's a local Munich ordnance. Oh, and none of this contradicts the main point, which is that nothing in those articles suggests that robbing an unlocked car is legal. EDIT: though interestingly, at least in some municipalities breaking into an unlocked car may be a lesser crime than forcibly breaking into a locked car. Still a crime, but basically you're charged simply with stealing rather than some sort of breaking and entering.

RIMR 7y ago

Well, that's theft, which is entirely separate from intrusion. Let's say you left your front door unlocked overnight, and a teenager opened it and screamed "LEROY JENKINS!" as loud as he could into your home, waking your whole family up, before closing the door and running away. Would you really say that the teenager deserves to be charged with trespassing or B&E for this? Is jail really the answer to this transgression? If it happened every night, wouldn't you mostly be to blame for never locking your door, especially after experiencing first-hand what happens when you do not? If Zoom is an analogy for your home, then imagine that your landlord refuses to put an actual lock on the door of your apartment, even after you tell him that people are opening it and screaming into your home. With that said, most computer intrusions don't include theft or damages of any kind, so theft really isn't a great analogy. If someone does damage, they have done more than simply intrude. And if you refuse to take steps to prevent these things from happening, the more it happens, the more it becomes your fault (of the fault of whoever is in charge).

tomnipotent 7y ago
> Would you really say that the teenager deserves to be charged with trespassing or B&E for this? Absolutely yes, so that they can learn stupid stuff like this is not tolerated. What if in the middle of that B&E the homeowner shoots the harmless kid? This idea that petty crimes are tolerable so long as the perpetrator has a "good intentions" is pure irresponsible silliness.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]