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If you think that fashion and perfumery are “the mundane” you are sorely wrong. They are the most anthropologically interesting endeavor I can think of, except

If you think that fashion and perfumery are “the mundane” you are sorely wrong. They are the most anthropologically interesting endeavor I can think of, except for maybe more formally studying remote tribes. Scents in particular is an extremely fascinating industry, marketing the invisible and crafting cultural narratives around the most primal and underrated sense we have.

galacticaactual 7y ago
To each our own. I don't think work in this area serves humanity one iota. But that's my opinion and I respect yours.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  What exactly is your opinion, out of interest, like how does it work? Do all the miriads of people who buy fragrances or fragrant-induced products (not to mention all the workers of that industry) just spend their money and resources on something that makes them no benefit whatsoever because they are what, too stupid? Or like they don't understand what they like? Or can't form their own decisions? In what way do those numbers not speak of some amount of "serving" these people receive from the fragrance industry? Since they keep using it, keep pouring their resources into it? Also where do you draw the line? How about video games? Do they really serve humanity after all? Porn? Christmas lights? All the work spent on designing and constructing beautiful buildings? Should all buildings just be efficient faceless boxes because it saves more resources?
  - andai 7y ago
    Yes.
  - laichzeit0 7y ago
    No.
  - natch 7y ago
    >because they are what, too stupid? Because they are inconsiderate of others who do not want to smell the fragrances. Think of it like smoking. Annoying and offensive to people nearby. No need to hone this.
- growlist 7y ago
  By this area do you mean fragrances? Or the application of AI in this specific example? If the latter I'm inclined to agree with you, since there's already more fragrances out there than I could ever hope to sniff, and many of the ones I have sniffed smelled pretty amazing without AI. If the former, I think it's a bit much to just dismiss fragrances as pointless so easily; people have been obsessed with taste and smell for thousands of years, and indeed it has shaped the course of history e.g. spice trade etc., so clearly fragrances are involved with a very basic and important human need.
  - natch 7y ago
    AI could help with detecting people wearing them and singling those people out for fines and/or education on how wearing fragrances is extremely inconsiderate to others.
    - growlist 7y ago
      It all depends I suppose. The merest whiff of Cerutti 1881 takes me straight back to a particular girlfriend in the mid-90s.
      - natch 7y ago
        You're not getting the meaning of the word "inconsiderate."
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    >people have been obsessed with taste and smell for thousands of years, and indeed it has shaped the course of history e.g. spice trade etc., so clearly fragrances are involved with a very basic and important human need. You can't assume that just because people are obsessed with something it is a basic need. One counterexample would be that thing where they implant wires in the right spot in your brain and you become obsessed with pressing the button to zap yourself.
    - growlist 7y ago
jimmaswell 7y ago
It's still "just" a kind of art. It's not going to let us populate a new planet or harvest space minerals. Art is valuable but the point of the person you're responding to still stands.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Making one vial of perfume is art. Making millions needs some complicated chemical and logistic apparatus behind it. And art does make technology evolve. History of art is constrained by the techniques and products available at the time. Painters have always chased elusive colors and chemists have strived to give them what they wanted for cheap prices. The convenience of going to a modern paint shop and getting pretty much any color you want is a modern luxury.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Art would most definitely help us populate a new planet or harvest space materials. It paves the way, quite literally, in the imagination to even understand it might be possible and the implications of such. Additionally, a society that has no meaningful manner of media, culture, or expression sounds exactly like the sort of stuff that art has been exploring for decades. It’s usually not portrayed as some sort of utilitarian utopia though...
natch 7y ago
>the most primal and underrated sense we have. If only this sense could be elevated and respected at the level of, say, hearing. Then just as with unwanted noise, perhaps cultural norms could shift such that people who inflict "pleasant" or "fascinating" fragrances on others who find them irksome would be discouraged from doing so the the extent that they do now.
lozaning 7y ago
One of the most fascinating people I had the good fortune to cross paths with while living in the Bay Area was a women who worked as a _very_ high end scent consultant. She'd routinely fly across the world to figure out how the various areas of a new Four Seasons or some such should smell before it opened. One of the more interesting engagements she told me about was to figure out the best smell to be used in olfactory warning systems for loud underground mining environments. If you're wearing so much PPE you cant hear anything, apparently pumping the smell of gag inducing rotting cabbage is the most sure fire way to ensure everyone in the mine knows to get out _now_.

galacticaactual 7y ago

To each our own. I don't think work in this area serves humanity one iota. But that's my opinion and I respect yours.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
What exactly is your opinion, out of interest, like how does it work? Do all the miriads of people who buy fragrances or fragrant-induced products (not to mention all the workers of that industry) just spend their money and resources on something that makes them no benefit whatsoever because they are what, too stupid? Or like they don't understand what they like? Or can't form their own decisions? In what way do those numbers not speak of some amount of "serving" these people receive from the fragrance industry? Since they keep using it, keep pouring their resources into it? Also where do you draw the line? How about video games? Do they really serve humanity after all? Porn? Christmas lights? All the work spent on designing and constructing beautiful buildings? Should all buildings just be efficient faceless boxes because it saves more resources?
- andai 7y ago
  Yes.
- laichzeit0 7y ago
  No.
- natch 7y ago
  >because they are what, too stupid? Because they are inconsiderate of others who do not want to smell the fragrances. Think of it like smoking. Annoying and offensive to people nearby. No need to hone this.
growlist 7y ago
By this area do you mean fragrances? Or the application of AI in this specific example? If the latter I'm inclined to agree with you, since there's already more fragrances out there than I could ever hope to sniff, and many of the ones I have sniffed smelled pretty amazing without AI. If the former, I think it's a bit much to just dismiss fragrances as pointless so easily; people have been obsessed with taste and smell for thousands of years, and indeed it has shaped the course of history e.g. spice trade etc., so clearly fragrances are involved with a very basic and important human need.
- natch 7y ago
  AI could help with detecting people wearing them and singling those people out for fines and/or education on how wearing fragrances is extremely inconsiderate to others.
  - growlist 7y ago
    It all depends I suppose. The merest whiff of Cerutti 1881 takes me straight back to a particular girlfriend in the mid-90s.
    - natch 7y ago
      You're not getting the meaning of the word "inconsiderate."
- whatshisface 7y ago
  >people have been obsessed with taste and smell for thousands of years, and indeed it has shaped the course of history e.g. spice trade etc., so clearly fragrances are involved with a very basic and important human need. You can't assume that just because people are obsessed with something it is a basic need. One counterexample would be that thing where they implant wires in the right spot in your brain and you become obsessed with pressing the button to zap yourself.
  - growlist 7y ago

jimmaswell 7y ago

It's still "just" a kind of art. It's not going to let us populate a new planet or harvest space minerals. Art is valuable but the point of the person you're responding to still stands.

raverbashing 7y ago
Making one vial of perfume is art. Making millions needs some complicated chemical and logistic apparatus behind it. And art does make technology evolve. History of art is constrained by the techniques and products available at the time. Painters have always chased elusive colors and chemists have strived to give them what they wanted for cheap prices. The convenience of going to a modern paint shop and getting pretty much any color you want is a modern luxury.
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
Art would most definitely help us populate a new planet or harvest space materials. It paves the way, quite literally, in the imagination to even understand it might be possible and the implications of such. Additionally, a society that has no meaningful manner of media, culture, or expression sounds exactly like the sort of stuff that art has been exploring for decades. It’s usually not portrayed as some sort of utilitarian utopia though...

natch 7y ago

>the most primal and underrated sense we have. If only this sense could be elevated and respected at the level of, say, hearing. Then just as with unwanted noise, perhaps cultural norms could shift such that people who inflict "pleasant" or "fascinating" fragrances on others who find them irksome would be discouraged from doing so the the extent that they do now.

lozaning 7y ago

One of the most fascinating people I had the good fortune to cross paths with while living in the Bay Area was a women who worked as a _very_ high end scent consultant. She'd routinely fly across the world to figure out how the various areas of a new Four Seasons or some such should smell before it opened. One of the more interesting engagements she told me about was to figure out the best smell to be used in olfactory warning systems for loud underground mining environments. If you're wearing so much PPE you cant hear anything, apparently pumping the smell of gag inducing rotting cabbage is the most sure fire way to ensure everyone in the mine knows to get out _now_.