4 ms·

I’d be really interested in who the stockpile is meant for if it’s not for people living in states.

by jupp0r 7y ago

irrational 7y ago
I imagine they might say it is for helping other nations. The reality is it probably really is for the states. The conspiracy theory is probably that it is for the 1% and for those in power.
- colmvp 7y ago
  > I imagine they might say it is for helping other nations. Given that the administration is halting exports of masks to Canada and Latin America from 3M, I somehow doubt that the reserves are for helping other nations.
  - irrational 7y ago
    But haven't the reserves been built up over many decades? The reasoning behind the reserve probably long predates the current administration.
ceejayoz 7y ago
There's some truth to the idea that the Feds do need some reserved for things like embassies, warships, FEMA, etc. The current meme going around local news Facebook comments seems to be that the Feds are just a backup with no direct responsibilities for disaster management, though, and that it's all on the states for being unprepared. Which, well, is bullshit.
- _iyig 7y ago
  Is it? I'm honestly asking. As an American, I understand there's a division of responsibility between the federal state governments for disaster preparedness, but I don't know exactly what that agreement entails (or even if it's clearly written down somewhere). Without a clear understanding of who's responsible for what, it seems easy to point fingers depending on political preference. If anyone has more knowledge and is willing to share, I'd appreciate it.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Emergency_Management_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Emergency_Management_A... "The agency's primary purpose is to coordinate the response to a disaster that has occurred in the United States and that overwhelms the resources of local and state authorities."
    - _iyig 7y ago
      Yes, I agree that the feds should step in at this point (and should have done so long ago). What I'm curious about is the responsibility each state has to, for example, maintain their own stockpile of PPE. What are the resources that have been overwhelmed (and does it vary by state)?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        States absolutely have stockpiles, but more for the "there was an earthquake/hurricane/bombing" sort of scenarios where there'd be mutual aid from other states after a few days/weeks and you could readily rebuild the stockpiles in a few weeks by placing some orders with 3M etc. I don't think any state is going to wind up having had a stockpile sufficient for this sort of prolonged, world-affecting disaster.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    The fed govt can print and borrow money at will, which states cannot and which is crucial in large scale disasters like this.
  - foogazi 7y ago
    The federal government can comandeer private businesses to produce whatever it wants. I don’t think states can do this
    - xtiansimon 7y ago
      I don't think the states would _want_ to do this. Gov control of business closer to the local level means you're closer to your constituents.
fach 7y ago
They are for the states but my favorite theory is a large number don't work[1] and the administration is attempting to save face until they can swindle replacements internationally. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-v...
codeddesign 7y ago
The entire press conference was stating that the federal stockpile is not a grocery store, but is to be mobile based upon where the federal government feels it is needed, and no state has the right to demand and send a shopping list.
- fach 7y ago
  I don't know how you look at a metropolitan area like NYC overrun with cases, and decide there isn't a need there. Are they waiting until it hits Montana?
  - sachdevap 7y ago
    Not a state that can sway Republican, unlike Florida. [0] [0] https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/3/21206170/us-emergency-stockpile-jared-kushner-almost-empty-coronavirus-medical-supplies-ventilators https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/3/21206170/us-emergency-st...
- pas 7y ago
  That's of course a completely sensible stance, but what's the current standing protocol, or it's just what Trump feels at the moment?
  - codeddesign 7y ago
    So many people blame Trump, when in reality there are 10's of thousands of goverment workers that work tirelessly every day and go unnoticed (good and bad). In regard's to my initial comment, here is a great example of Washington state receiving ventilators from the stock pile, and then sending them back for use elsewhere: https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/washington-returns-hundreds-of-federal-ventilators-for-use-in-ny/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/washington-returns-hundreds-of...
  - codeddesign 7y ago
    FEMA, CDC, or National Guard? I honestly don't have an answer to that, but I would highly doubt Trump is putting them in a golf cart and driving them around...LOL
m0zg 7y ago
It's pointless partisan "gotcha" posturing from the press and nothing more. Anyone with half a brain understood Kushner perfectly well: this is the emergency stockpile to prevent hoarding "for the future" by states. Resources are delivered to individual states at a short notice after they tally up how much of the already allocated resources they are already using, to make sure e.g. thousands of ventilators don't sit in some NJ warehouse for days while at the same time CNN is telling everyone there aren't enough of them.
- fach 7y ago
  CNN isn't telling people there aren't enough of them. The governor of New York is telling people there aren't enough of them.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    It's a lie by omission. The governor of New York has acknowledged several times that they have enough now, but anticipate running out at some point in the future. The gap between what he anticipated from the models last week and the hospitalizations on the ground is ~3x right now. Which is something CNN won't explicitly tell you, but you can easily see it from multiple public sources.

I’d be really interested in who the stockpile is meant for if it’s not for people living in states.

by jupp0r 7y ago

I’d be really interested in who the stockpile is meant for if it’s not for people living in states.

I imagine they might say it is for helping other nations. The reality is it probably really is for the states. The conspiracy theory is probably that it is for the 1% and for those in power.

colmvp 7y ago
> I imagine they might say it is for helping other nations. Given that the administration is halting exports of masks to Canada and Latin America from 3M, I somehow doubt that the reserves are for helping other nations.
- irrational 7y ago
  But haven't the reserves been built up over many decades? The reasoning behind the reserve probably long predates the current administration.

ceejayoz 7y ago

There's some truth to the idea that the Feds do need some reserved for things like embassies, warships, FEMA, etc. The current meme going around local news Facebook comments seems to be that the Feds are just a backup with no direct responsibilities for disaster management, though, and that it's all on the states for being unprepared. Which, well, is bullshit.

_iyig 7y ago
Is it? I'm honestly asking. As an American, I understand there's a division of responsibility between the federal state governments for disaster preparedness, but I don't know exactly what that agreement entails (or even if it's clearly written down somewhere). Without a clear understanding of who's responsible for what, it seems easy to point fingers depending on political preference. If anyone has more knowledge and is willing to share, I'd appreciate it.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Emergency_Management_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Emergency_Management_A... "The agency's primary purpose is to coordinate the response to a disaster that has occurred in the United States and that overwhelms the resources of local and state authorities."
  - _iyig 7y ago
    Yes, I agree that the feds should step in at this point (and should have done so long ago). What I'm curious about is the responsibility each state has to, for example, maintain their own stockpile of PPE. What are the resources that have been overwhelmed (and does it vary by state)?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      States absolutely have stockpiles, but more for the "there was an earthquake/hurricane/bombing" sort of scenarios where there'd be mutual aid from other states after a few days/weeks and you could readily rebuild the stockpiles in a few weeks by placing some orders with 3M etc. I don't think any state is going to wind up having had a stockpile sufficient for this sort of prolonged, world-affecting disaster.
- belltaco 7y ago
  The fed govt can print and borrow money at will, which states cannot and which is crucial in large scale disasters like this.
- foogazi 7y ago
  The federal government can comandeer private businesses to produce whatever it wants. I don’t think states can do this
  - xtiansimon 7y ago
    I don't think the states would _want_ to do this. Gov control of business closer to the local level means you're closer to your constituents.

fach 7y ago

They are for the states but my favorite theory is a large number don't work[1] and the administration is attempting to save face until they can swindle replacements internationally. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-v...

codeddesign 7y ago

The entire press conference was stating that the federal stockpile is not a grocery store, but is to be mobile based upon where the federal government feels it is needed, and no state has the right to demand and send a shopping list.

fach 7y ago
I don't know how you look at a metropolitan area like NYC overrun with cases, and decide there isn't a need there. Are they waiting until it hits Montana?
- sachdevap 7y ago
  Not a state that can sway Republican, unlike Florida. [0] [0] https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/3/21206170/us-emergency-stockpile-jared-kushner-almost-empty-coronavirus-medical-supplies-ventilators https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/3/21206170/us-emergency-st...
pas 7y ago
That's of course a completely sensible stance, but what's the current standing protocol, or it's just what Trump feels at the moment?
- codeddesign 7y ago
  So many people blame Trump, when in reality there are 10's of thousands of goverment workers that work tirelessly every day and go unnoticed (good and bad). In regard's to my initial comment, here is a great example of Washington state receiving ventilators from the stock pile, and then sending them back for use elsewhere: https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/washington-returns-hundreds-of-federal-ventilators-for-use-in-ny/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/washington-returns-hundreds-of...
- codeddesign 7y ago
  FEMA, CDC, or National Guard? I honestly don't have an answer to that, but I would highly doubt Trump is putting them in a golf cart and driving them around...LOL

m0zg 7y ago

It's pointless partisan "gotcha" posturing from the press and nothing more. Anyone with half a brain understood Kushner perfectly well: this is the emergency stockpile to prevent hoarding "for the future" by states. Resources are delivered to individual states at a short notice after they tally up how much of the already allocated resources they are already using, to make sure e.g. thousands of ventilators don't sit in some NJ warehouse for days while at the same time CNN is telling everyone there aren't enough of them.

fach 7y ago
CNN isn't telling people there aren't enough of them. The governor of New York is telling people there aren't enough of them.
- m0zg 7y ago
  It's a lie by omission. The governor of New York has acknowledged several times that they have enough now, but anticipate running out at some point in the future. The gap between what he anticipated from the models last week and the hospitalizations on the ground is ~3x right now. Which is something CNN won't explicitly tell you, but you can easily see it from multiple public sources.