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> Avoiding taxes by legal means, is neither illegal nor immoral. No matter where you stand in the hypothetical debates on taxation and public spending in the r

> Avoiding taxes by legal means, is neither illegal nor immoral. No matter where you stand in the hypothetical debates on taxation and public spending in the real world it boils down to government will spend tax money, taxes should adjust for the ability to participate and avoiding them just shifts the burden from people that should be able to afford them to others - I think this is immoral by most accounts. And IMO, arguing that it's not not worsens the problem, laws have a limited impact and will always have flaws - morality and social judgment (as absurd as these things are getting these days) are another correction mechanism for undesirable behaviour.

listenallyall 7y ago
>> shifts the burden This argument falls apart when you recognize how and why companies become eligible for tax deductions. The top 3, according to the CBO, are exclusions stemming from providing health insurance, pension contributions, and capital gains & dividends. By doing so, companies actually accept a huge burden that would otherwise be left to taxpayers, like paying healthcare costs and providing an income for eligible retirees & spouses. Cap gains & dividends -- while they certainly enrich corporate management and wealthy owners -- are the primary means through which massive public pension funds (like CalPERS) provide the benefits promised to public employees. And if you want to take it further, probably the biggest incentive to get people to work in the public sector at all, is the promise of a generous pension post-retirement. (and even further -- all that money is taxed at the individual level, albeit at a different rate, but certainly not tax-free) One might even make the argument that a company that refused to provide any retirement benefits, refused to offer health insurance, and which refused to return any capital to investors, is the one that is immoral. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52493 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52493
- rubber_duck 7y ago
  Tax incentives are created to stimulate one behaviour, so using them is good - but abusing those tax incentives - avoiding the behaviour they were supposed to stimulate but avoiding taxes is the immoral part. I'm seeing a decent amount of this with the recent crisis tax reliefs
  - listenallyall 7y ago
    >> using them (tax incentives) is good that's a 180 from your initial comment >> Avoiding the behaviour they were supposed to stimulate but avoiding taxes I very clearly stated that I was talking about legal means. If a company claims a tax deduction for an action it did not actually perform, that would be illegal. >> recent crisis tax reliefs I can't speak to non-US policy, but in the US, the recent stimulus is not a tax relief bill, and thus inapplicable (though I will agree there is likely to be a lot of fraud).

listenallyall 7y ago

>> shifts the burden This argument falls apart when you recognize how and why companies become eligible for tax deductions. The top 3, according to the CBO, are exclusions stemming from providing health insurance, pension contributions, and capital gains & dividends. By doing so, companies actually accept a huge burden that would otherwise be left to taxpayers, like paying healthcare costs and providing an income for eligible retirees & spouses. Cap gains & dividends -- while they certainly enrich corporate management and wealthy owners -- are the primary means through which massive public pension funds (like CalPERS) provide the benefits promised to public employees. And if you want to take it further, probably the biggest incentive to get people to work in the public sector at all, is the promise of a generous pension post-retirement. (and even further -- all that money is taxed at the individual level, albeit at a different rate, but certainly not tax-free) One might even make the argument that a company that refused to provide any retirement benefits, refused to offer health insurance, and which refused to return any capital to investors, is the one that is immoral. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52493 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52493

rubber_duck 7y ago
Tax incentives are created to stimulate one behaviour, so using them is good - but abusing those tax incentives - avoiding the behaviour they were supposed to stimulate but avoiding taxes is the immoral part. I'm seeing a decent amount of this with the recent crisis tax reliefs
- listenallyall 7y ago
  >> using them (tax incentives) is good that's a 180 from your initial comment >> Avoiding the behaviour they were supposed to stimulate but avoiding taxes I very clearly stated that I was talking about legal means. If a company claims a tax deduction for an action it did not actually perform, that would be illegal. >> recent crisis tax reliefs I can't speak to non-US policy, but in the US, the recent stimulus is not a tax relief bill, and thus inapplicable (though I will agree there is likely to be a lot of fraud).