6 ms·

>I spent many years living in San Ramon, Alameda, Newark, etc. in my youth and have no desire to ever return I understand that this is not center to the point

>I spent many years living in San Ramon, Alameda, Newark, etc. in my youth and have no desire to ever return I understand that this is not center to the point you're making but I am curious! What makes you hate the Bay area? I lived there for ~4 years and recently moved to Pittsburgh. I can't wait to move back. In fact, the mere mention of these places evokes a strong sense of homesickness in me for some reason.

sethammons 7y ago
Not OP. I've only visited the Bay Area a few times. Human filth, needles, and just so many people packed into the space. I can't imagine raising a family in that situation. Contrast that with where I am now: I have a very large house on 10+ acres of land on the edge of a lake. Each of my kids has their own room and there are lots of rooms and corners to "get away from each other". We have room for food storage, a home gym, and are not dependent on the city for water or gas (though we do have to fill our propane tank a couple times a year). If I walk to the edges of my property, I can see a couple other houses. We have bon fires, ride ATVs, go fishing, shoot guns and bows in the back yard. We have full on seasons (granted that winter is the largest, but we like cold and snow). Not to even begin talking about the political differences. The few things I liked about the Bay Area: lots of economic opportunity (esp. as a software dev), nearby greenery, and lots of food options. Oh, and the ability to find others who would like to play board games. I can't find anyone to play board games with out in the middle of nowhere (my family is not interested in any).
- bagels 7y ago
  San Francisco is not the whole bay area, but it is pretty gross.
- axiom92 7y ago
  Sounds like you were in the city (SF). The suburbs are much better!
- pj_mukh 7y ago
  Live in San Francisco for 3 years now. Haven't seen a single needle yet or "human filth". AMA.
  - exolymph 7y ago
    Dang, you must live in an awfully rich neighborhood.
    - pj_mukh 7y ago
      Nope. I just don’t live in the tenderloin. Unfortunately that’s where all the hotels are. So I’m not surprised that visitors (and twitterati) get a certain sense.
  - danielscrubs 7y ago
    How? I was in the city for a week and saw more needles on the street than the slums of China. Even the townsfolk would complain about some mental hospital closing down forcing mentally ill people to live on the streets and you could see them everywhere. That said, I didn't have a guide, I'd just walk with friends for an hour or two aimlessly starting from the pier. On the other hand, this is how I'm used to do it and I've been to 20+ countries.
    - mepiethree 7y ago
      All cities have bad parts. San Francisco is somewhat unique amongst places that I've visited, in that most of the tourist traps are either in or are immediately next to the absolute worst parts of town.
      - danielscrubs 7y ago
        Human suffering (homelessness, needles and mental issues) is not something I'd call bad parts. Whatever that was goes beyond that. I don't even want to know how it would affect a person to see that every day and think it's normal.
- stickfigure 7y ago
  The "Bay Area" is a big place. I live a similar lifestyle and I'm 45m from downtown Oakland. You could do closer if you're willing to spend more or have neighbors.
aphextron 7y ago
It all depends what you want in life. Pittsburgh you can afford a beautiful home and support a family on $100k. That's studio apartment survival money in the bay. The portion of us who will ever make it to the big leagues and land that $300k FAANG job that allows you to buy a home and raise a family in the bay is infinitesimal. But if you just want to live that single lifestyle, enjoy the big city, and play the startup lotto, then go for it.
- meritt 7y ago
  > big leagues and land that $300k FAANG job that allows you to buy a home and raise a family in the bay is infinitesimal. $300k/yr is nowhere near big leagues to buy a home and raise a family in the Bay area, just fyi. It's more like a comfortable single income where you aren't worried about paying rent or going out to dinner. You try and raise a family on a mere $300k in SF/SV, you're one layoff or recession away from being completely screwed.
  - xenihn 7y ago
    The trick is to also marry another engineer making that much :) The majority of housing stock listed for sale in SV is being pulled off the market in a panic. I'm not sure what exactly it means, but if I had to guess, I think it's due to a huge reduction in demand. No one is buying, so sellers don't want their homes to be listed as unsold for a lengthy period of time. Eventually, people will need to sell, and then we'll see a race to the new bottom for the market, which might still be incredibly unaffordable for most. $300k will take you further then, but the issue will be whether companies will keep paying engineers that much when housing prices no longer warrant it.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Well it might be enough in 6 months!
    - meritt 7y ago
      For sure. I'd just hate to be someone who thought signing a 30-yr note on a modest $1.5M 3-bed/2-ba home was a sustainable decision, and is now faced with the almost certain deep recession we're heading into.
sershe 7y ago
Never been to Pittsburgh, but what do you miss, other than the weather? I lived there for 3 years (Mountain View, SoMa, Inner Richmond), and outside of work it's basically a giant cluster of generic burbs and gridlock, with a filthy medium-quality city in the middle, priced 3-4 times the amount of an average burby gridlock (e.g. San Antonio) or a medium-quality city (e.g. Denver then). There's awesome nature but it's 3-5 hours away, driving thru gridlock, whereas Seattle, Portland, Denver, SLC, etc have it next door.
- axiom92 7y ago
  Interestingly, in addition to the weather, I do miss nature. I think nature is always next door depending on where you are in the Bay area. For example, you can be in Foster City at 5 pm, get on 92W and reach crystal springs water reservoir on Canãda road by 5:10 (you already feel like you're far away from the city); 15 more minutes and you could be on Skyline (this was also one of my favorite "amaze the tourist" route whenever I was playing the tour guide for people visiting). There's plenty of nature around Pittsburgh, but I none of the hikes that are close to the city give you the feeling of being really deep in the woods. I also miss the Redwoods, the coast, and the seafood. I've collected some pictures from my hikes in the Bay area here: https://madaan.github.io/hiking https://madaan.github.io/hiking
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Canãda road Cañada Road
    - axiom92 7y ago
      Thanks!
  - sershe 7y ago
    I used to bike up to Skyline on Old La Honda road. I didn't consider it to be really impressive nature... at least not compared to the above mentioned cities. IMHO there are too many people and built-up land there (a general problem in the Bay Area), and whatever hikes/etc. are available are flat and rather mediocre. Marin is not bad but also crowded, flat and gets old fast. Places like Skyline, Saint Helena, Mount Diablo, Half Moon Bay, Pinnacles etc. are really only good for 1-2 visits and then to impress visitors :) Sierras are amazing, but far away (both Rockies in Denver and Cascades in PNW are much closer and the traffic is not so bad), and the ocean is very cold, you have to be really psyched to surf or do anything like that in the Bay Area. I mean sure it's better than most places East of the continental divide, but not particularly great. Especially with all the people :)

sethammons 7y ago

Not OP. I've only visited the Bay Area a few times. Human filth, needles, and just so many people packed into the space. I can't imagine raising a family in that situation. Contrast that with where I am now: I have a very large house on 10+ acres of land on the edge of a lake. Each of my kids has their own room and there are lots of rooms and corners to "get away from each other". We have room for food storage, a home gym, and are not dependent on the city for water or gas (though we do have to fill our propane tank a couple times a year). If I walk to the edges of my property, I can see a couple other houses. We have bon fires, ride ATVs, go fishing, shoot guns and bows in the back yard. We have full on seasons (granted that winter is the largest, but we like cold and snow). Not to even begin talking about the political differences. The few things I liked about the Bay Area: lots of economic opportunity (esp. as a software dev), nearby greenery, and lots of food options. Oh, and the ability to find others who would like to play board games. I can't find anyone to play board games with out in the middle of nowhere (my family is not interested in any).

bagels 7y ago
San Francisco is not the whole bay area, but it is pretty gross.
axiom92 7y ago
Sounds like you were in the city (SF). The suburbs are much better!
pj_mukh 7y ago
Live in San Francisco for 3 years now. Haven't seen a single needle yet or "human filth". AMA.
- exolymph 7y ago
  Dang, you must live in an awfully rich neighborhood.
  - pj_mukh 7y ago
    Nope. I just don’t live in the tenderloin. Unfortunately that’s where all the hotels are. So I’m not surprised that visitors (and twitterati) get a certain sense.
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  How? I was in the city for a week and saw more needles on the street than the slums of China. Even the townsfolk would complain about some mental hospital closing down forcing mentally ill people to live on the streets and you could see them everywhere. That said, I didn't have a guide, I'd just walk with friends for an hour or two aimlessly starting from the pier. On the other hand, this is how I'm used to do it and I've been to 20+ countries.
  - mepiethree 7y ago
    All cities have bad parts. San Francisco is somewhat unique amongst places that I've visited, in that most of the tourist traps are either in or are immediately next to the absolute worst parts of town.
    - danielscrubs 7y ago
      Human suffering (homelessness, needles and mental issues) is not something I'd call bad parts. Whatever that was goes beyond that. I don't even want to know how it would affect a person to see that every day and think it's normal.
stickfigure 7y ago
The "Bay Area" is a big place. I live a similar lifestyle and I'm 45m from downtown Oakland. You could do closer if you're willing to spend more or have neighbors.

aphextron 7y ago

It all depends what you want in life. Pittsburgh you can afford a beautiful home and support a family on $100k. That's studio apartment survival money in the bay. The portion of us who will ever make it to the big leagues and land that $300k FAANG job that allows you to buy a home and raise a family in the bay is infinitesimal. But if you just want to live that single lifestyle, enjoy the big city, and play the startup lotto, then go for it.

meritt 7y ago
> big leagues and land that $300k FAANG job that allows you to buy a home and raise a family in the bay is infinitesimal. $300k/yr is nowhere near big leagues to buy a home and raise a family in the Bay area, just fyi. It's more like a comfortable single income where you aren't worried about paying rent or going out to dinner. You try and raise a family on a mere $300k in SF/SV, you're one layoff or recession away from being completely screwed.
- xenihn 7y ago
  The trick is to also marry another engineer making that much :) The majority of housing stock listed for sale in SV is being pulled off the market in a panic. I'm not sure what exactly it means, but if I had to guess, I think it's due to a huge reduction in demand. No one is buying, so sellers don't want their homes to be listed as unsold for a lengthy period of time. Eventually, people will need to sell, and then we'll see a race to the new bottom for the market, which might still be incredibly unaffordable for most. $300k will take you further then, but the issue will be whether companies will keep paying engineers that much when housing prices no longer warrant it.
- sjg007 7y ago
  Well it might be enough in 6 months!
  - meritt 7y ago
    For sure. I'd just hate to be someone who thought signing a 30-yr note on a modest $1.5M 3-bed/2-ba home was a sustainable decision, and is now faced with the almost certain deep recession we're heading into.

sershe 7y ago

Never been to Pittsburgh, but what do you miss, other than the weather? I lived there for 3 years (Mountain View, SoMa, Inner Richmond), and outside of work it's basically a giant cluster of generic burbs and gridlock, with a filthy medium-quality city in the middle, priced 3-4 times the amount of an average burby gridlock (e.g. San Antonio) or a medium-quality city (e.g. Denver then). There's awesome nature but it's 3-5 hours away, driving thru gridlock, whereas Seattle, Portland, Denver, SLC, etc have it next door.

axiom92 7y ago
Interestingly, in addition to the weather, I do miss nature. I think nature is always next door depending on where you are in the Bay area. For example, you can be in Foster City at 5 pm, get on 92W and reach crystal springs water reservoir on Canãda road by 5:10 (you already feel like you're far away from the city); 15 more minutes and you could be on Skyline (this was also one of my favorite "amaze the tourist" route whenever I was playing the tour guide for people visiting). There's plenty of nature around Pittsburgh, but I none of the hikes that are close to the city give you the feeling of being really deep in the woods. I also miss the Redwoods, the coast, and the seafood. I've collected some pictures from my hikes in the Bay area here: https://madaan.github.io/hiking https://madaan.github.io/hiking
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Canãda road Cañada Road
  - axiom92 7y ago
    Thanks!
- sershe 7y ago
  I used to bike up to Skyline on Old La Honda road. I didn't consider it to be really impressive nature... at least not compared to the above mentioned cities. IMHO there are too many people and built-up land there (a general problem in the Bay Area), and whatever hikes/etc. are available are flat and rather mediocre. Marin is not bad but also crowded, flat and gets old fast. Places like Skyline, Saint Helena, Mount Diablo, Half Moon Bay, Pinnacles etc. are really only good for 1-2 visits and then to impress visitors :) Sierras are amazing, but far away (both Rockies in Denver and Cascades in PNW are much closer and the traffic is not so bad), and the ocean is very cold, you have to be really psyched to surf or do anything like that in the Bay Area. I mean sure it's better than most places East of the continental divide, but not particularly great. Especially with all the people :)