6 ms·

> A common anecdote between people who deadlift 600lbs ... is how much pain they live with in later life I haven't heard those anecdotes and I'm curious. Where

by im3w1l 7y ago

> A common anecdote between people who deadlift 600lbs ... is how much pain they live with in later life I haven't heard those anecdotes and I'm curious. Where is the dividing line between building your body up and wearing it out?

gerdesj 7y ago
"Where is the dividing line between building your body up and wearing it out?" From personal experience: roughly aged 50 (give or take, probably give.) That's without farting around with big weights. 600lbs is about 270 kilos. There is no reason for your body to need to deal with moving weights like that unless you are in a competition or trying to save a life. Hence it is not built for loads of that magnitude on a regular basis. Running with an 80-100 lb pack/load on your back and holding a 20 lb lump is a reasonable load to put on a very fit body, aged up to say, around 40. Your local Army, Marines, etc will know better than me what to encourage here. Try this lot: https://www.paradata.org.uk/unit/infantry-training-centre-catterick https://www.paradata.org.uk/unit/infantry-training-centre-ca... for example. I'll just suggest that for most people, messing with weights like that are simply daft. We are not fork lift trucks. In the rest of the world, 25 kilos is considered a normal one man lift. Humans as a species are designed for endurance, not huge loads.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  In what natural scenario would a human be running with 80 extra pounds on their back? That seems like a great way to destroy your knees. > Your local Army, Marines, etc will know better than me what to encourage here Nothing about the military is designed to be long lasting. The system simply isn't worried very much about what happens to the knees and joints of its members. You can't even enlist in the army if you're 35. A friend of mine was in the army - his job was artillery. Even though his hearing was perfect before entering the army, he needs hearing aids now because artillery is loud, and the army simply doesn't care about his hearing. This is an anecdote but I can deadlift 550 lbs, probably 600 if I was going for my 1RM, and I've never really had any joint or back pain in my life. Meanwhile, I have similarly aged coworkers who love running but can't even bend over to pick something up due to their bad back or knees.
  - justrudd 7y ago
    While I don’t do it anymore, in my high school and college years I hunted quite a bit. Depending on the terrain, I would routinely have to pack out 100 to 125 pounds of meat uphill. Wasn’t running (sometimes shuffling if getting dark or starting to rain/snow), but that much weight on the back isn’t out if the norm. Another anecdote - Up until this past year (I’m 43 going on 44), I was routinely pulling about the same weight as you. I peaked at 637.5 (which still wasn’t enough for a good placement in a meet). I never had back pains or joint pains like yourself. For me, even though I had no pain, the next day, after pulling 600, was just miserable. I had no energy, was sluggish, etc. And yes. I ate. When peaking, I was always eating between 3500 and 4000 calories at 195bw. So I’ve not dead lifted heavy in 6 months. The stress on my central nervous system just isn’t worth it anymore. I’ll keep my lift at about 350 for 10 singles. That’s more than enough for me at this point in my life.
  - eru 7y ago
    If yo want to run for the long term, I'd suggest barefoot jogging. That'll teach you proper form for protecting your joints very quickly. And human bodies are literally made to jog longish distances barefoot. I also like deadlifts. They are great as well. As a rule of thumb, I guess, any amount of lifting you can do with only investing a few hours a week at most (and no steroids) is probably not enough to destroy your body.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
dirtyid 7y ago
The reason I compare it to construction is that at some point, pursing lifting to a high degrees involves putting in the amount of repetitions that amounts to a job with high statistical injury rate. If you follow bodybuilding and powerlifting closely, the amount of people who wash out due to injury is staggeringly high, to the point where an injury free career is anomalous and often credited to great genetics (tendon strength) than smart training. In fact the majority of the injuries happens on routine warm up reps, and because these people are enthusiasts and treat lifting almost like a job, they don't manage healing properly and will often continue training while injured leading to long term detriment. The particularly bone headed people will lift until they break their body and washout, but even smart lifters (who plan stress and fatigue sensibly) will eventually get injured past a certain level. This is like working in construction, people accrue damage over time, small injuries compound or big injuries take them out. The amount of work required in these occupation/hobbies are not calibrated for "health". [1] https://www.strongerbyscience.com/powerlifting-injuries-results/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/powerlifting-injuries-resu... >The overall number of people injured may surprise you. Of the 160 people who finished the study (either sustained an injury or made it through the whole year uninjured), almost ¾ of them sustained an injury. That seems to conflict with the finding that injury rates in powerlifting are only ~3-5 per 1000 hours of training. Assuming someone trains for five hours per week, that would mean you’d expect a lifter to get injured about once every four years, on average (or, stated another way, you’d expect about ¼ of lifters to get injured per year). However, keep in mind that we used a pretty broad definition of “injury” , compared to the more conservative definition used in other research. In another study on powerlifters using a pretty liberal definition of “injury,” 70% were injured at the single point in time when data was collected, so I’d say the overall injury rate seen in our study is to be expected. Taken collectively, the data suggest that powerlifters sustain minor injuries pretty frequently, but more serious injuries are pretty rare; comparable to triathlon training, but less common than long distance running or most team sports.
- eru 7y ago
  > The reason I compare it to construction is that at some point, pursing lifting to a high degrees involves putting in the amount of repetitions that amounts to a job with high statistical injury rate. Why? You can increase the weight, and keep the repetitions constant.

by im3w1l 7y ago

gerdesj 7y ago

"Where is the dividing line between building your body up and wearing it out?" From personal experience: roughly aged 50 (give or take, probably give.) That's without farting around with big weights. 600lbs is about 270 kilos. There is no reason for your body to need to deal with moving weights like that unless you are in a competition or trying to save a life. Hence it is not built for loads of that magnitude on a regular basis. Running with an 80-100 lb pack/load on your back and holding a 20 lb lump is a reasonable load to put on a very fit body, aged up to say, around 40. Your local Army, Marines, etc will know better than me what to encourage here. Try this lot: https://www.paradata.org.uk/unit/infantry-training-centre-catterick https://www.paradata.org.uk/unit/infantry-training-centre-ca... for example. I'll just suggest that for most people, messing with weights like that are simply daft. We are not fork lift trucks. In the rest of the world, 25 kilos is considered a normal one man lift. Humans as a species are designed for endurance, not huge loads.

oh_sigh 7y ago
In what natural scenario would a human be running with 80 extra pounds on their back? That seems like a great way to destroy your knees. > Your local Army, Marines, etc will know better than me what to encourage here Nothing about the military is designed to be long lasting. The system simply isn't worried very much about what happens to the knees and joints of its members. You can't even enlist in the army if you're 35. A friend of mine was in the army - his job was artillery. Even though his hearing was perfect before entering the army, he needs hearing aids now because artillery is loud, and the army simply doesn't care about his hearing. This is an anecdote but I can deadlift 550 lbs, probably 600 if I was going for my 1RM, and I've never really had any joint or back pain in my life. Meanwhile, I have similarly aged coworkers who love running but can't even bend over to pick something up due to their bad back or knees.
- justrudd 7y ago
  While I don’t do it anymore, in my high school and college years I hunted quite a bit. Depending on the terrain, I would routinely have to pack out 100 to 125 pounds of meat uphill. Wasn’t running (sometimes shuffling if getting dark or starting to rain/snow), but that much weight on the back isn’t out if the norm. Another anecdote - Up until this past year (I’m 43 going on 44), I was routinely pulling about the same weight as you. I peaked at 637.5 (which still wasn’t enough for a good placement in a meet). I never had back pains or joint pains like yourself. For me, even though I had no pain, the next day, after pulling 600, was just miserable. I had no energy, was sluggish, etc. And yes. I ate. When peaking, I was always eating between 3500 and 4000 calories at 195bw. So I’ve not dead lifted heavy in 6 months. The stress on my central nervous system just isn’t worth it anymore. I’ll keep my lift at about 350 for 10 singles. That’s more than enough for me at this point in my life.
- eru 7y ago
  If yo want to run for the long term, I'd suggest barefoot jogging. That'll teach you proper form for protecting your joints very quickly. And human bodies are literally made to jog longish distances barefoot. I also like deadlifts. They are great as well. As a rule of thumb, I guess, any amount of lifting you can do with only investing a few hours a week at most (and no steroids) is probably not enough to destroy your body.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

dirtyid 7y ago

The reason I compare it to construction is that at some point, pursing lifting to a high degrees involves putting in the amount of repetitions that amounts to a job with high statistical injury rate. If you follow bodybuilding and powerlifting closely, the amount of people who wash out due to injury is staggeringly high, to the point where an injury free career is anomalous and often credited to great genetics (tendon strength) than smart training. In fact the majority of the injuries happens on routine warm up reps, and because these people are enthusiasts and treat lifting almost like a job, they don't manage healing properly and will often continue training while injured leading to long term detriment. The particularly bone headed people will lift until they break their body and washout, but even smart lifters (who plan stress and fatigue sensibly) will eventually get injured past a certain level. This is like working in construction, people accrue damage over time, small injuries compound or big injuries take them out. The amount of work required in these occupation/hobbies are not calibrated for "health". [1] https://www.strongerbyscience.com/powerlifting-injuries-results/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/powerlifting-injuries-resu... >The overall number of people injured may surprise you. Of the 160 people who finished the study (either sustained an injury or made it through the whole year uninjured), almost ¾ of them sustained an injury. That seems to conflict with the finding that injury rates in powerlifting are only ~3-5 per 1000 hours of training. Assuming someone trains for five hours per week, that would mean you’d expect a lifter to get injured about once every four years, on average (or, stated another way, you’d expect about ¼ of lifters to get injured per year). However, keep in mind that we used a pretty broad definition of “injury” , compared to the more conservative definition used in other research. In another study on powerlifters using a pretty liberal definition of “injury,” 70% were injured at the single point in time when data was collected, so I’d say the overall injury rate seen in our study is to be expected. Taken collectively, the data suggest that powerlifters sustain minor injuries pretty frequently, but more serious injuries are pretty rare; comparable to triathlon training, but less common than long distance running or most team sports.

eru 7y ago
> The reason I compare it to construction is that at some point, pursing lifting to a high degrees involves putting in the amount of repetitions that amounts to a job with high statistical injury rate. Why? You can increase the weight, and keep the repetitions constant.